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Learning skills; worth it?

 
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Heretic
Chief WO4
Chief WO4


Joined: 09 Feb 2002
Posts: 473
Location: Tripoint

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:54 pm    Post subject: Learning skills; worth it? Reply with quote

Scoundrelus wrote:
What im doing is putting the full time (bout a month and a half I hear) into getting all my learning skills to level 5. Its extremely monotonous but supposedly rewarding in the end. Ive heard many good examples of WHY to do it but im feeling a bit jipped of my money to be honest. I mean I cant do much in the game till those learning skills are done. I cant do complexes because my merlin can only take 1 cruiser at a time. NPC hunting is not very rewarding. All I can do is mine, which is only fun in a group up to a certain point.

What input can people give me on learning skills, because I was told to learn them back to back with nothing in between. Should I learn them in the proper order: back to back. Or should I learn one then some other miscellanous skill then another learning skill then another miscellanous skill etc.





When is it worth going for advanced learning?

ABSTRACT BALONEY
*shrug* okay, let's do the math: Strictly speaking, focusing merely on absolute numbers having higher attributes is a "good" thing. Ignoring charisma, let's look at how long an average player would have to spend leveling up the other 4 learning skills to lvl3 advanced learning, shall we? (it's 80 days to overtake someone who never trains any learning skills period)

assuming you had a starting character with 8 attribute points in each slot except charisma which was 3 (purely hypothetical; based on ~35 attribute points each race gets, including the 5 pool as well; ignoring implants)Hypothetically speaking, for best results of training learning skills (exclusively), you'd start with the mem, int and learning purchases and go up to adv learning lvl3 in the first two, then you'd do the same for perception and willpower. (eve-i skill calculator has screwed up values for learning skill bonus so i'm afraid i cannot use it.)
    source
  • instant recall to lvl1 = (250 - 0) / [(8 + 4 + 0) * 1] = 250 / 12 = 20.83
  • analytic mind to lvl1 = (250 - 0) / [(9 + 4 + 0) * 1] = 250 / 13 = 19.23
  • learning to lvl1 = (250 - 0) / [(9 + 4.5 + 0) * 1] = 250 / 13.5 = 18.52
  • instant recall to lvl2 = (1415 - 250) / [(9 + 4.5 + 0) * 1.02] = 1165 / 13.77 = 84.60
  • analytic mind to lvl2 = (1415 - 250) / [(10 + 4.5 + 0) * 1.02] = 1165 / 14.79 = 78.77
  • learning to lvl2 = (1415 - 250) / [(10 + 5 + 0) * 1.02] = 1165 / 15.3 = 76.14
  • instant recall to lvl3 = (8000 - 1415) / [(10 + 5 + 0) * 1.04] = 6585 / 15.6 = 422.12
  • analytic mind to lvl3 = (8000 - 1415) / [(11 + 5 + 0) * 1.04] = 6585 / 16.64 = 395.73
  • learning to lvl3 = (8000 - 1415) / [(11 + 5.5 + 0) * 1.04] = 6585 / 17.16 = 383.74
  • instant recall to lvl4 = (45255 - 8000) / [(11 + 5.5 + 0) * 1.06] = 37255 / 17.49 = 2130.07
  • analytic mind to lvl4 = (45255 - 8000) / [(12 + 5.5 + 0) * 1.06] = 37255 / 18.55 = 2008.36
  • learning to lvl4 = (45255 - 8000) / [(12 + 6 + 0) * 1.06] = 37255 / 19.08 = 1952.57
  • instant recall to lvl5 = (256000 - 45255) / [(12 + 6 + 0) * 1.08] = 210745 / 19.44 = 10840.79
    SUBTOTAL TIME = 19490.86 -- 12.8 days (346510 skill points)
  • Eidetic Memory to lvl 1 = (750 - 0) / [(13 + 6 + 0) * 1.08] = 750 / 20.52 = 36.55
  • Eidetic Memory to lvl 2 = (4245 - 750) / [(14 + 6 + 0) * 1.08] = 3495 / 21.60 = 161.81
  • Eidetic Memory to lvl 3 = (24000 - 4245) / [(15 + 6 + 0) * 1.08] = 19755 / 22.68 = 871.03
  • analytic mind to lvl5 = (256000 - 45255) / [(16 + 6 + 0) * 1.08] = 210745 / 23.76 = 8869.74
  • Logic to lvl 1 = (750 - 0) / [(16 + 6.5 + 0) * 1.08] = 750 / 23.76 = 31.57
  • Logic to lvl 2 = (4245 - 750) / [(16 + 7 + 0) * 1.08] = 3495 / 24.30 = 143.83
  • Logic to lvl 3 = (24000 - 4245) / [(16 + 7.5 + 0) * 1.08] = 19755 / 24.84 = 795.29
  • learning to lvl5 = (256000 - 45255) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.08] = 210745 / 25.92 = 8130.59
    SUBTOTAL TIME = 19040.41 -- 13.22 days (560000 skill points)
  • spatial aware to lvl1 = (250 - 0) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 250 / 26.4 = 9.47
  • iron will to lvl1 = (250 - 0) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 250 / 26.4 = 9.47
  • spatial aware to lvl2 = (1415 - 250) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 1165 / 26.4 = 44.13
  • iron will to lvl2 = (1415 - 250) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] =1165 / 26.4 = 44.13
  • spatial aware to lvl3 = (8000 - 1415) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 6585 / 26.4 = 249.43
  • iron will to lvl3 = (8000 - 1415) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 6585 / 26.4 = 249.43
  • spatial aware to lvl4 = (45255 - 8000) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 37255 / 26.4 = 1411.17
  • iron will to lvl4 = (45255 - 8000) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 37255 / 26.4 = 1411.17
  • spatial aware to lvl5 = (256000 - 45255) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 210745 / 26.4 = 7982.77
  • iron will to lvl5 = (256000 - 45255) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 210745 / 26.4 = 7982.77
    SUBTOTAL TIME = 19393.94 -- 13.47 days (512000 skill points)
  • spatial aware to lvl1 = (750 - 0) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 750 / 26.4 = 9.47
  • iron will to lvl1 = (750 - 0) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 750 / 26.4 = 9.47
  • spatial aware to lvl2 = (4245 - 750) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 3495 / 26.4 = 132.39
  • iron will to lvl2 = (4245 - 750) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] =3495 / 26.4 = 132.39
  • spatial aware to lvl3 = (24000 - 4245) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 19755 / 26.4 = 748.30
  • iron will to lvl3 = (24000 - 4245) / [(16 + 8 + 0) * 1.10] = 19755 / 26.4 = 748.30
    SUBTOTAL TIME = 1780.32 -- 1.24 days (48000 skill points)

    TOTAL TIME = 59705.53 -- 41.46 days (1.376 million skill points)
okay, so that's 41.46 days. you now have 17.6 effective attribute points across all except charisma. That means you learn any skill that doesn't need charisma at 26.4 skill points per minute. that's 220% faster than if you'd not trained any learning skills whatsoever. Awesome, yes? well, sorta. you'll be doing sweet **** all during that time for actually training for stuff you can use. And to add insult to injury, you'll spend another 41.46 days just breaking even, although after that it's a cake walk (but that's 80 days and 3 million skill points later)

Think about it. 41.46 days training for their "conventional wisdom"...Now, let's do the math and ignore my leapfrogging formula: say you never touched any learning skills and had 8 attributes and no implants. 41.46 days would have given you ~ 0.716 million skill points. Let's repeat that. 716 thousand skill points (totally ignoring any leapfrogging formula; see below) that you could have spent on FLYING, or SHOOTING, or INDUSTRY or RESEARCH...hell, 3/4 million skill points is three lvl5 skills. my god, that's refining 5, electronics 5 and engineering 5 (just by playing dumb with zero learning skills)...or, thinking of it another way, that's NINETY rank one lvl3 skills
    DOUBLE that to illustrate how long it would take a fully trained adv.learning lvl3 character to catch up with someone with absolutely zero learning skills
    Niki Silver wrote:
    On this topic though to be honest it really doesn't make that much difference. If you do all the Memory to +9, then do all the Intel to +9, then do the learning to +5 it takes ~49221.54 minutes given a starting mem and intel of 8 and 8. If you do Memory 1, Intel 1, Learning 1, Memory 2, Intel 2, so on and so forth all the way till you get to the same point, Mem +9, Intel +9, Learn +5, it takes ~49170.37 minutes given the same starting stats of 8 and 8. A wopping 50 minute difference over a period of 34 days.

    Bottom line: It really doesn't make any difference, so long as you do memory, intel, and learning before you do all the other stuff yer just fine.
SOLUTION: LEAPFROGGING
I counsel all n00bs to train their learning skills to 2 lvls below the skill level of something practical they're planning on training next. (ie. if you want electronics lvl4 then make sure memory, intell and learning are all at lvl2 before hand)
    what this does is SAVE you time so you finish that skill before you would have without the learning class skills
This leapfrog pattern will not only get you that skill faster, it won't cost you time spent on doing the idiotic method of going hell for leather on learning skills with no rhyme or reason.

When would i consider it time to train the learning skills to lvl4? well, probably when you want to get a rank three skill to lvl5; As for when it is time to make the jump to the advanced learning skills? well, i figure whenever you're ready to train a rank 5+ skill to lvl5. That's when you can really think seriously about focusing on training learning skills to the exclusion of all else. Otherwise, if you listen to the "veterans" 'common wisdom' on this subject you're going to discover how REALLY long it takes to get to where they want you to be, and that's what kills alot of enthusiasm for this game.

Now, can we please start educating n00bs in the leapfrog approach instead of this abstract baloney of training learning skills to the exclusion of sanity? plzkthxdrvthru
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