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Troll, inc.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2001 5:40 pm    Post subject: Troll, inc. Reply with quote

UMEC's Jargon server
Trolls are recognizable by the fact that the have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll."
When a discussion degenerates into useless controversy
    muffy definition of a flame:
  1. see above troll and flame definitions
  2. To yell "RTFM" at a n00b...a newbie isn't automatically a Llama, though i'm sure a few trolls try that disguise. (that's what /ignore comes in handy for ingame and on the forums)
  3. To use swear words (even in jest, sarcasm, parody, quote)...can be done, but don't ever try to "ubb hack" the filter or use language commonly employed by folks like RangerW, Rix/Incursus/etc, Frogman/etc, Berzerker in a griefer context (and for fuck's sakes i'm not going to use bloody crayons to explain judicious usage of "colourful idioms" to you)
  4. To take someone out of context (especially to quote an entire post in little snippets, or focus entirely on personal asides and call into question a decent post using off-topic complaints)...This is usually a misunderstanding or the result of "skimming" a thread with one's opinion already prejudiced. (happens, we're human)
  5. To continue demanding an ever increasing amount of information (ie. Too Much Information syndrome) simply to use as ammo in an off-topic wynar fest; When you see someone request more than a reasonable amount of info, one is pretty sure they simply want to use whatever you tell them as ammo to attack something else. (the reason it's a flame is because they tend to act like rabid dogs knawing on a bone)...This is a more evolved and deliberate form of taking someone out-of-context
  6. another deliberate use of out-of-context reply is someone who knows quite well what the context of the other person is, but uses the reverse of "too much information" sydrome...evidenced by someone pretending to misunderstand a post simply to use it as ammo in an off-topic wynar fest. (usually evidenced when some punk wants to dumb down an issue in order to protect his/her ill-gotten gains via an exploit)
  7. The final evolution of the out-of-context flame is to be hypocritical...usually evidenced by folk who have such a sense of Self-Righteousness that they think the ends justify the means and forget that while JumpGate may be based on nonconsentual pvp in all it's forms (combat, economic, information, diplomatic), that doesn't justify a lack of humility and the disrespect for boundaries (*IC*, *OOC* and RL). You can see this quite clearly any time the contradictions begin to form a house of cards usually hinged on some false assumption. (ie. "since i'm a nonpvper, therefore whatever i do can't be seen as engaging in nonconsentual pvp...up to and including <insert economic warfare tactic> since i'm not griefing anyone."...or "since i'm a pvper, therefore whatever i do is consentual pvp simply because this game allows it") This sort of Troll will engage anyone who challenges said assumption like some crazed <insert ad hominem> lunatic, especially when one mentions the fact that a pvpswitch & infinite markets would make this sort of punk extremely happy as long as there were blue & red servers.
    1st part: RL allusion; 2nd part: RP uses wrote:
    The above paragraph illustrates pretty thoroughly the definition of Propaganda &/or Apologetics, which strangely enough are Christian in origin. Why on earth do PR people like bringing up references to religion...perhaps it's because of the esoteric nature of such? Well, anyways, accepting the fact that it's highly esoteric, i'd like to continue with an interesting comparison: It looks to me like Hypocrisy = Propaganda; therefore Trolls pretty much fall under that category.
    *muffy then goes bravely off to investigate propaganda and fries his poor wittle brain*
    ewwwww kay, i found a cool quote "Science flourishes on criticism. Dangerous propaganda crumbles before it." Most texts focus on historical ww2 stuff...i'll avoid chatting about that and focus on a contemporary source that shows more complexity to the "hypocrisy" i've tacked onto the word: "I actually have a high regard for the American media because i think that there is a high level of professional competence in the narrow technical sense. That is, i think they are not going to lie. Well, there are some who will, but, by and large, our reporters will, in a sort of technical sense, try to find out what is going on. What goes wrong is the choice of topics, the framework of assumptions, the set of presuppositions within which things are presented, the emphasis, the tone and so on."

    Alright, all this RL aside, alot of our roleplaying arguments on Plotline discussion in the roleplaying forums is all fun and games. I'm not going to explain how to use "propaganda" because anyone throwing themselves into a role can throw up jingoistic opinions easily enough without needing some silly manual. Hell, most of our background material on JumpGate is so sketchy one needs to invent stuff to argue about...I myself, while *OOC* calling for more background info on JG from GM_Moll cringe whenever she does post something - because it might be contrary to some concept i've been advocating. *g*

    Well, enough navel-gazing, let's get back to defining more examples of what muffy considers a flame...
  8. To use any illogician nitpicking tactic (especially to falsely accuse your "opponent" of using said tactics)...usually a lack of research and a dependence on "popular" JumpGate jingoisms.
  9. please note that muffy attaches a unconventional connotation to "jingoism" in the previous point...simply because the word sounds 1337 to use for "bigoted use of spam" (ie. shallow UBB posting style, and a 30 second "CNN" attention span)
  10. To post any squad related whine fest beginning with accusations of civripping, stationstripping, combatdisco (or other cheat/exploit), ingame screenshots, ingame F4 insults...Basically your average pvp flame bait seen since beta5. this invariably degenerates into semantic hissyfits
  11. To whine about the wynars (though wynar syndrome isn't automatically a troll/flame post)
  12. Troll will reply with "don't declare what my intent is - personal flame (ad hominem) - waaaaa! i never said that!" whenever you try to read between the lines (and point out the painfully obvious)
  13. To act like a Llama (see below)
Muffy definition of a Llama: Refusing to admit one misunderstood an earlier post (ie. took someone out-of-context and refusing to apologize LOUDLY via semantic hissyfits); Having a martyr complex (ie. knowingly feigning ignorance to illicit sympathy -- eg. poGBS fiasco) This is a more evolved form of taking someone out of context in that one knowingly plants false information in a context of suffering that's just plain false -- your average squad warfare flame war is an example); Righteous Indignation is evident in both out-of-context and martyr-complex flame wars. To the point of obstinance so blindingly obvious am innocent layman bystander is amazed at the semantic gymnastics going on in front of his/her very eyes; Lack of boundaries, realpolitiks and sychophancy are prime symptoms of the lack of self-effacing humour.
    more to the point, lack of self-effacing humour is pretty much a total lack of humility (ie. conceit)
Long and short of it is that a Llama is a "lame" gamer who is so clueless as to put a blonde to shame (either a carebear or a griefer)
FYI, here's an official history of the connotation attached
BTW, here's a funny guide to Llamas (though the usage of the word gets a bit to common for the FPS testosterone crowd -- the type that love yelling "RTFM" at n00bs)
    a n00b isn't automatically a Llama...sheeesh

it would be wise to note that muffy quit JG because of a lack of action on point # 10

DISCLAIMER: Muffy will neither confirm nor deny the fact he's painting a picture of myself. hehe
  1. Self-Righteous
  2. Martyr Complex
  3. RealPolitik and Sychophancy
  4. Boundary Issues
  5. Lack of self-effacing humour
  6. Twink behavior (nitpicking clueless n00b who demands a "WINGAME" button)
"Trolls" have such a sense of Righteousness about them (and, of course they are the best thing since sliced bread) that everything about them is good, and everything good is about them. tee heee

In fact, i'm fascinated by the whole Martyr complex they routinely project. (not to mention the regular annoying public rants that they don't get no respect and everyone else are $%^$$#, except a few select people targetted for the worst sucking sounds you've ever seen emoted)

The total lack of boundaries is intriguing. these "Trolls" can't distinguish between RL, OOC, and IC (especially how they save the absolute worst case of potty mouth for harrassing pilots over "whisper" chat who dare upstage them) Everything they do, up to and including borderline perversion, is considered Legitimate "in character" actions...Go figure where that leads. hehe
    One type of "Troll" is a "fanboi"; These suckers think the game rules, but player attitudes suck. (the one's you see berating others for cheating while being the worst rule lawyers you've ever seen)
    The other type is a "griefer"; These anti-suckers think the game sucks, but player attitudes rule. (the one's you see running amok among the player population "educating" them on the true meaning of MMOG)
Martyr; Dictionary (lots of fun words like "suffer")
Conceit; Dictonary (lots of fun words like "ego")
Narcissism; Dictionary (lots of fun words like "Alley McBeal")
Inferiority Complex; Dictionary (lots of fun words like "blah blah blah")

The really sad thing is these guys never admit that sometimes it's okay to share a laugh with someone else's jokes, or have even the slightest indication of what "self-effacing" means. Modesty does not become them.
Pride Goeth Before a Fall..blah blah blah
~pithy saying from bible

Last edited by MajorFreak on Sat Jan 04, 2003 8:38 am; edited 37 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2001 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PJG follow up post (updated for purge)
heeh...that one was funny.

Last edited by MajorFreak on Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Expert Witness: RoyofCA/Merchant
*read: comments from the peanut gallery*
Occupation: Fanboi (Troll)
Hobby: posting shit like this
oh. he's commented since time began. Roy's said so many things and kissed so much dev/pub ass, not to mention flamed everyone who had an original idea and dared to post it, that he could pretty much claim to have a stance on everything. hehe. RoyofCA/Merchant is a grade A fanboi who's thread here, there and everywhere illustrate how stupidly biased** his "stance du jour" are. (His opinion of sim testing is well known; He decides whether to claim sim testing means nothing compared to real battle situations or visa versa on a whim)

Actually, getting roy to stand his ground and clarify his position is impossible since he ignores anything reasonable and concentrates on the inane. (In fact, he's a master of the inane, banal and trite; don't expect him to risk stating his true hopes for this game and you won't be disappointed with his inevitable reply)

That "shame" he feels over "his" faction's plight is pretty much the equivalent of crocodile tears one might get from a child of 3 1/2...he's been Octavian for 50hrs yet feels deeply about his new faction. hmmmmmmmm...i remember Armchair mentioning something about that. something like, "The martyr role doesn't fit you, roy"

FYI, the next thing he's going to do is berate people who admit to using a known exploit. you might see him ingame harrassing artifact explorers.

BTW, don't expect him to curse, act irrational or any other "outrageous" behavior. He always acts "holier-than-thou", has little sense of self-effacing humour, plus he never ever says anything he can't bullshit his way out of (ie. he can lie his damned face off cause anyone who tries pointing out his chronic BS has been committed to the loony bin ages ago)

**It's not bias. it's called lack of ethics. (you can't claim he's incompetent cause he makes sure he doesn't say much of anything. RoyofCA fer Prez!)

[ This Message was edited by: MajorFreak on 2002-01-03 06:08 ]
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Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should make Troll trading cards, muffy.


[ This Message was edited by: MajorFreak on 2002-01-03 06:14 ]
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The New Hacker's Dictionary

twink /twink/ n.
1. [Berkeley] A clue-repellant user; the next step beyond a clueless one. 2. [UCSC] A read-only user. Also reported on the Usenet group soc.motss; may derive from gay slang for a cute young thing with nothing upstairs (compare mainstream `chick').
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, you can spot a useless group when they lack humor. ^_^;;

soon as there's no humor, it's a disaster zone. (that is the environment where politics breeds and asskissing/backstabbing becomes par for the course)
    And we're not talking about practically jokes nor "hollywood war humour" here...just good spontaneous stuff without the egotrips (ie. self-effacing stuff as opposed to talking smack)

Last edited by MajorFreak on Sat Jan 04, 2003 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the dictionary definition of Game Theory.
A mathematical method of decision-making in which a competitive situation is analyzed to determine the optimal course of action for an interested party, often used in political, economic, and military planning. Also called theory of games.
That "mathematical method" is called MiniMax.
Of or relating to the strategy in game theory that minimizes the maximum risk for a player
At it's core this would be a Zero-Sum game where any gain is a loss for the other side in the aforementioned competitive situation...Of course, JumpGate isn't exclusively a PvP game, since there's alot of cooperation involved in many aspects too dynamic to mention. (giving the lie to "quake in space")...JumpGate really is a beautiful example of a non-zerosum game
  1. Unfortunately, alot of people (who we shall call Griefers) have decided to prove the opposite. That this game IS a zerosum game insofar as killing someone and causing them grief is a joyous experience...Thereby validating their shallow perceptions.
  2. Equally disgusting is the attitude of some who think that cooperating 100% will make this game a Utopia it was meant to be. (who we shall call Carebears)
  3. Then there's the type who think whatever's good for the goose is just peachy for the gander; Exhibited by those "funny" pilots who instill joy in everyone around them by being total and complete arseholes (who we shall call rational players; selfish and stupid)
  4. The truly scary types are the ones that think "the whole is more than the sum of its parts" means ganging together to rape some poor schmuck equates to "honor among thieves" (who we shall call irrational players; selfish but not stupid)
  5. Fortunately, the majority of players are normal human beings. (selfish, sorta. stupid, sorta.)
You're probably wondering why the hell i called exhibit C. "rational"...Well, first of all, it's kinda silly to play a MMOG like a SP game. Secondly, choosing to take always the best course of action for yourself assumes the other guy gives you his cake too...plain griefers are a little too short lived in this's the evolved sort that irk me. (type d)

here's something interesting by an even more evolved type of Griefer (the rules lawyer)
    More a specialized sort that lurks on forums. called a troll in geek terms

Last edited by MajorFreak on Sun Jun 02, 2002 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

please note this post has broken links out the yin yang
Boy, this guy's a dead ringer for RoyofCA
anyways, you might remember that was posted in the Roleplaying Forum. (was done RIGHT after moll posted the 5th weekly gossip - not mentioning DSA, EEA, or Hyperial squad at all)

My first impression was the person behind Ares_Kiden panicked about the lack of squad puff peices (not that there'd been anything worth posting in the past week)...and his agenda was being somehow threatened...

not to mention that BfloEagle has posted a brilliant discussion about suggestions for Moll that broke the ice for Kiden (nice excuse pal. not)

03-08-2002 06:55 AM BfloEagle's post
03-10-2002 10:53 AM UG Truth Volume 1 issue 4
03-10-2002 01:04 PM Muffy posts to BfloEagle's thread
03-10-2002 13:32 PM Galaxy Gossip, Week 5
03-10-2002 03:19 PM Ares_Kiden replies to BfloEagle's thread
03-10-2002 04:11 PM Ares_Kiden's whine & cheese festival

pretty much a RoyofCA patented maneuver. (seen to perfection during betatest era...i'll get to that later) I ended up slaughtering the little scrappers with this:
  1. Kiden basically stated that giving squads ownership of factions (R&D at aman; Market at EE; Ships at Hyperial) will improve the gameplay & content.
  2. Kiden neglects to mention the overwhelming sense of favoritism that is expressed through this to uninvolved parties and prospective customers reading about this stuff. (especially n00bs on their free accounts)
  3. Kiden seems to have neglected the Event FAQ stated in plain english in a sticky thread when he states, "But I think they can give us the tools to do it ourselves."
  4. Kiden then goes off to suggest even more stuff not related to storylineposts/roleplayingevents in any way shape or form...what do Squad Diplomatics (squad warfare tools) have any place in Events? (moll can't do anything about this stuff? how would she? It's a wonderful lovely suggestion, don't get me wrong, but what does it have to do with Moll's job?)
  5. Kiden then pops the worst peice of trash i've ever seen. "Faction Leaders"? (what the hey? Excuse me for being delusional, but we go from players affecting the storyline to an about face talking about puff peices??? that smacks of a little too much "Players get to be faction leaders...i like player government to tell me what to build where")
    It's a case of an agenda hiding in plain sight
  6. Personally, the last point is plain drivel. blah blah blah. "fix it now or i quit!" mentality i'm so used to seeing from RoyofCA
As you can see from the previous poster, player governments is a sexy topic...*shrug* this whole damned thread is a troll made by someone cashing in their Roleplaying character's chips.
ewwwwww..kay, off for some spelunking in the old ND BBS archives...

posted 07-26-2001 09:50 GM_Mother merchant?
posted 07-27-2001 23:58 UMEC does the funky chiken?
posted 07-28-2001 12:08 EE station stripping by octs
posted 07-29-2001 15:09 Poms Poms and beek thiefs
posted 07-29-2001 21:34 Corporate puff peice
posted 07-30-2001 21:26 Black company vs Merchant
posted 08-01-2001 21:25 GM_Mage attacked by Merchant
posted 08-03-2001 12:51 Merchant attacked by OMEGA

posted 08-07-2001 12:40 RoyofCA quits INN

2 weeks later some guy posts a couple of "Action News Center" posts before Nazgul starts flaming big time

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MajorFreak on 2002-03-11 18:54 ]</font>

Last edited by MajorFreak on Thu Jul 11, 2002 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny enough, just after i'd posted something about Ares_Kiden being RoyofCA, Inno&Froggie left Hyperial squad to create Dolus Malus (which caused DF to do the crocodile tear thing he's famous for [notice his RP thread was posted after the GD thread] )...and wouldn't you know the energizer bunny keeps going and going and .....
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
one even speculates that the situation is ripe for Gargamel to reappear. (but it's not quite "ripe" yet for that to happen...i'll bet the moment that GBS thing takes off it'll hit the fan. no pun intended.)

Last edited by MajorFreak on Thu Jul 11, 2002 2:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmmmmm...very curious. it seems as though a Troll will reply with "don't declare what my intent is - personal flame - waaaaa! i never said that!" whenever you try to read between the lines (and point out the painfully obvious)
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2002 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmmmm...i wonder if issues of scale count as well. hmmmmm (especially with stuff the troll figures is, currently, unmeasurable)
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ND general forum thread
interesting concept on humor and lack of soul searching.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

updated for the great purge, especially since there's little official info forthcoming on what constitutes a flame.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MG flame forum thread
i should put some time aside to match that post with this thread and crosscheck anything i missed here or there...
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