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Chief WO4
Chief WO4

Joined: 09 Feb 2002
Posts: 473
Location: Tripoint

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:47 pm    Post subject: Skills Reply with quote

When i started i wanted to equip some cool stuff that maxxed out my ship's CPU and power fittings...but, everything but "Civilian shield boosters" seemed to want skills.

I found the first critical skill was mechanic which allowed me to slot in "basic" slot1 items. after that it was "how do i make money fast?"

Well, mining isn't that profitable at low levels, and i'm going to do some testing whether or not taking missions is worth it...and when the tables turn (at high levels mining is VERY profitable)

first off, here's what my skills are at now (and where i purchased them on the cheap)
    prices are for this date, and locations are near Penirgman in Domain region
Skill         SarumPrime  Chaven      Sahda/Farun Mabnen      Amarr

Engineering                           20k
Refining      54k         55k

Afterburner                           24k
Analytical Mind                       53k
Electronics                           21k
Ener Grid Up  87k                    (83k) [lvl4 gives you cap flux coil 1]
Energy Manag 187k        187k       (177k)  [lvl4 micro aux pwr core req.]
Instant Rec   55k
Learning                                          37k
Mining        n/a         n/a         n/a         n/a         n/a
Navigation                            20k
Science       22k 
Targeting                            102k

Amarr Cruis  550k                   (533k)
Amarr indust                         323k
Connections                          201k
Cybernetics                                                    75k
Drones                                20k
Ener Puls Wp 143k        143k       (134k) [smartbomb req.]
Energy sys op 44k         44k        (41k) [energy subsystem market]
Hull Upgrades                         65k
Industry      21k         22k        (20k)
Med. En Tur  110k        110k       (105k)
Missile Lnch  22k                    (21k)
Negotiation                           66k
Prod. Eff.                           253k
Rapid Firing  44k         44k        (42k)
Repair sys    33k                    (32k)
Shield ops                            37k [shield subsystem market]
Shield upgrad                        253k [shield upgrade market]
Small En Tur  21k         21k
Small Hy Tur                          20k
Small Pr Tur  22k         22k
Social        22k         22k        (21k)
Spaceship Com n/a         n/a         n/a          n/a         n/a
Std Missiles  22k         22k        (20k)
Warp Drv Ops                          30k
Weapon upgrad 88k         88k        (83k)

Accel Control 44k         44k        (41k)
Contr Bursts  77k         77k        (73k)
Defender Miss 33k         33k        (30k)
Empathy       55k         55k        (51k)
Evasive Maneu 28k                     26k
Fuel Conserv  33k         33k        (31k)
FoF missiles  28k         28k        (26k)
Heavy Miss   110k        110k       (103k)
High Speed M 374k        374k       (354k) [microwarpdrive req.]
Iron Will     55k         55k        (51k)
LR targeting  97k         97k        (91k)
Mass Prod    157k        157k       (151k)
Mechanic                              21k   and see penirgman 9.11
Med. Hy Tur  110k        109k       (102k)
Med. Pr Tur  108k        107k       (102k)
Motion Pred   66k         66k        (62k)
Scout Drone   44k         44k        (42k) [combat drone req]
Sharpshooter                          80k
Shield Manag 187k        187k       (177k) [shield boost amp. req.]
Signat. Analy 83k         83k        (78k)
Spatial Aware                         53k
Tac Shield M 231k        231k       (216k)

Elect upgrad 110k                   (105k) [co-processor 1 req.]
Propuls Jam  165k        165k       (155k) [statis webifier req.]

Astrogeology 495k        495k       (464k) everyone typos it, astrology
Metallurgy   372k        368k       (355k)
Refining Eff 299k        299k       (284k)
Scordite Proce                        50k

Anchoring     82k         83k        (76k)
Corp Management
Cruise Missiles
Galle Cruis  530k        532k       (507k)
Galle Frigate
Galle indust 316k        318k       (303k)
Heavy Missiles
Mining Drone ops
Minmatar Frigate

Heavy Drone Ops....heard it increased all drone dmg
Drone interfacing..uhm, perhaps soon (tm)
Multitasking...sounds fun. maybe later (tm)
DeepCore mining? omg, astrogeology V?!!
Scrapmetal processing sounds fun, but insane requirements
Remote armor repair, shield/energy emissions....pfffft
Everything else is Battleship are advanced studies/management stuff

If you go to Tash-Murkon Prime you can find competitive prices nearby for all the above skills. (jump distance total from penirgman is about 4-5)
    therefore, highly recommend you check out prices at Emrayur 3.1, Rand 5 and Tew 7
most important skill as a n00b? Well, after mechanics it should be hull upgrades (hull upgrade market section,) then Repair Systems. after that it's science (lvl1) and engineering (lvl2) for energy grid upgrades skill (energy upgrade market section) for utilizing most of the slot1 gear out there.

the way i look at it now is, "if armour repair modules use less energy than shields and are more resistant to EM damage most AI enemies use, then way not use the slot2 gear for Afterburner, Propulsion Jamming and Capacitor Batteries -- instead of shield boosters?" (contrary to my n00b experience with civilian shield boosters)
    I've found that two small repair modules on a cruiser is more reliable than 1 (size1) plus 1 med.shield booster (size2)...i basically ignore shield statistics now

Last edited by Heretic on Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:30 pm; edited 6 times in total
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Chief WO4
Chief WO4

Joined: 09 Feb 2002
Posts: 473
Location: Tripoint

PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:18 pm    Post subject: Calculator Reply with quote

Tripoli wrote:
Here's how your attributes work.

This is what most people don't seem to quite understand, so read carefully. The catch is that the 'Learning' skill does not do exactly what it claims. Instead of decreasing training time by 2%, it actually adds 2% more to your attribs per level.

Base intel 5 with Anayltical Mind lv 5 gives you 10.0 attrib points.
Add learning lv 5 to that and it's (5+5)+((5+5)*5*.02) = 11.0
Add an Basic Implant and it's (5+5+3)+((5+5+3)*5*.02) = 14.3
You'll note the +3.3 attrib gain for adding a +3.0 implant.

Also, you'll notice that your attributes are always displayed as whole numbers. They are rarely actually whole. The number is TRUNCATED, not rounded. For instance, my Memory, which displays as 20, is actually 20.9.

Now, you simply plug your correct attribs into the forumla:

(SPNeeded - CurrentSP) / (PriAttrib + (SecAttrib / 2))

This will yield the total number of minutes remaining."
Tank Cranker wrote:
Tripoli is right. Its pure math. No debate.

The formula for aquiring skillpoints pr minute is:

(PrimAttrib + PrimAttribSkill + PrimAttribImplant)+
(SecAttrib + SecAttribSkill + SecAttribImplant)/2
) *
(1 + 0.02 * Learning level)

The description for the learning skills are - as for a lot of other skills - wrong and misleading. Just look at the refining skills. They come close to blatant lies.

Increasing the speed with 2% does not make you reach your target 2% faster.

It is the same as saying that 102/100 = 100/98.

I wrote a bit on the above calulations for Eve-I's FAQ, that might or might not make sense to you. :) But it is there if someone wants to have a look at it.

Last edited by Heretic on Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Chief WO4
Chief WO4

Joined: 09 Feb 2002
Posts: 473
Location: Tripoint

PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:20 pm    Post subject: Primary / Secondary Reply with quote

Willpower used to be primary for turrets and spaceship. Patches seem to change these, so i'll keep an eye out. (apparently some high lvl ships need it still)

librarian.jpg" border="0" />

The skill that are most important to me (that i want at lvl5) are:
  • Drones (x1); Drone Interfacing (x5)
    • 1536k SP
  • Electronics (1); LR targeting (2); Multitasking (3); Targeting (1)
    • 1792k SP
  • EnergyGridUpgrades (2); EnergyManagement (3); EnergyPulse (2); EnergySysOps (1); Engineering (1); ShieldManagement (3); ShieldOperations (1); ShieldUpgrades (2)
    • 3840k SP
  • Gunnery (1); Controlled (2); Motion Pred. (2); Rapid Firing (2); Sharpshooter (2); Surgical strike (4); Traj.Analysis (5); Weapon upgrades (2) 6 specialization paths
    • 5120k SP (one specialization. say large autocannon and all the dressings adds another 6400k sp)
  • Industry (1); Mass Production (2); Mining (1); ProductionEff. (3); Refining (1); Refin.Eff. (3); Scrapmetal (5); lots of Specialized Ores (2)
    • 4608k SP (assuming just one specialized refining skill; add 512k per additional)
  • Hull Upgrades (2); Mechanic (1); Repair systems (1)
    • 1024k SP
  • All of them: Cruise (5); Defender (2); FoF (3); Heavy (3); MissileOps (1); Rockets (1); Standard (2); Torps (4)
    • 5376k SP
  • all except jumpdrive: Acc.Control (4); Afterburner (1); Evasive Man. (2); Fuel Cons. (2); HighSpeed (5); Navigation (1); WarpDrive (1)
    • 4096k SP
  • kinda iffy on this section: Astrogeoogy (3); Biology (1); Cybernetics (3); Lab ops (1); Metallurgy (3); Science (1)
    • 3072k SP
  • Connections (3); Fast Talk (4); Negotiation (2); Social (1)
    • 2560k SP
  • Spaceship command (1); and well, yeah, "almost retarded amounts"
  • Trade? what's that?
you must be thinking, "wow, better get perception/willpower to best at start, right?"...well, not really. add up all the skill categories needing INT/MEM and you get 9728k. (doesn't included learning/industry which goes with MEM/INT)

what we need is a character with INT/MEM/PER/WILL/CHA (or MEM/INT/PER/WIL/CHA)
    i'll take the latter if the creation system gives that the better bias

Last edited by Heretic on Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chief WO4
Chief WO4

Joined: 09 Feb 2002
Posts: 473
Location: Tripoint

PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:10 pm    Post subject: Character creation Reply with quote

please see this thread (because images very large)

This clearly shows only two choices available: Caldari Deteis Scientist, or Minmatar Sebiestor Tinkerer. (based solely on attributes)

which to take? based solely on skills one would prefer Caldari, because EnergyGridUpgrades depend on Engnrng2/Science1 (and that skill gives you the energyupgrade market items)
    ie. those annoying loot items giving boosts to shields/capacitor/power can be used.
    Level I Energy Gride Upgrade skill

    Level II Energy Gride Upgrade skill

    Level IV Energy Gride Upgrade skill
Now, mining vessels. which one is the best? Caldari Bantam or Minmatar Probe?

Of course, here's where the minmatar what's going to be the deciding vote? skills or ship? Ship has to be the priority, but career? I go for captaincy speciality for lvl4 frigate (with the above two ships that's 20% extra cargo) because i want cruisers and industrials fast.
    besides, since my starting attributes lower my ability to train PER/WILL based skills i need all the help i can get
i think the most important question is, "what about the industrial ship hauler i'll want to use in hauling my ore to base?" Caldari Badger has fully 25% more cargo space (each has 2 slot1 spaces) than the Minmatar Wreath.

And what about just pure mining goodness? what race has the best cruiser for hislots (miner2s) and missiles or drone capacity (combat)? It comes down to the Caldari Osprey/Moa combo or the Minmatar Rupture/Stabber combo.

and the winner is Caldari! roflmao! the irony of it all is merely CPU limits. The moa can power 4 miner2s handily. pretty much the deciding vote over such a small thing

So, here's my character:

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