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Mining, imho

 
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Heretic
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:54 am    Post subject: Mining, imho Reply with quote

hi. welcome to eve where the asteroids don't kill you and, if you're not sleeping, pesky AI aliens can't chase you down if you flee. This is a miner's heaven, and so it should be, even for a n00b.

SUMMARY
  • Create custom waypoints that are "behind" your destination by about 11-12km to turn your slug into a speed freak (recommend a shuttleto do the setup)
  • Find a ship you can mount defensive weapons as well as mining guns (mining drones suck at low levels)...preferably combat drones and mining lasers; use the waypoint system you set up so you don't have ot worry about speed -- put ALL your cargo expanders into this one
  • a jettisoned cargo container lasts two hours. jettison your first mining amount then keep shifting (dangerous if thieves come around, but it's yet to happen to me) your ore to that
  • once you've got enough volume to load up your Industrial ship, warp back, change ships and go grab that ore! (ie. your big, fat dumb ship with lots of cargo but little else)
  • High refining skill allows you to concentrate on mining Kernite that can be refined down to size that a fast courier can run around and sell the Mexallon and Isogen to the high bidders near your base...and if you suck at refining, just sell the ore itself, and the fastest way to do that is:
  • right clicking on an item in the station's 'Item' window and selecting 'Advanced Market Info' will give you the fastest route to finding who's buying what where (and how much)
  • It pays to mine near systems where you get the best price
have fun!


BACKGROUND
I haven't yet gotten the time yet to fiddle around with how best to make money as a n00b (you've got choices)
  1. mining agent missions
  2. mine Scordite, refine & sell to highest bidder
  3. combat agent missions (bounty cash & refining junk they get you; using the best loot too)
  4. Courier agent missions
  5. a combination of the above
  6. have a sugar daddy
Now, i'm based in Domain region with Penirgman as the "center"...i try not to stray far from this area (usually avoid going more than 3 jumps away.) There is one player character based at Penirgman's many stations. (planet 9, moon 11) that gives the best prices in the domain for both Tritanium and Pyerite at huge volumes.

My original character has Refining4, Mining3, Connections2, Amarr Industrial2. I've heard Astrogeology gives the same bonus as Mining skill (lotsa training involved there)
    my attributes weren't really thought out and i suck...I'm moving to another character - GALLENTE - and leaving this one as a 'mule' to store things and maintain an old corporation.

    The corporation i refine my minerals at is HZO corp who have me at 1.68 standing (connections really helps) which means they take a refining "tax" of 3.73% volume.
My Refining skill raises the base refining of 50% to 90.5% (which is really REALLY nice)

SETUP
Using an Amarr shuttle i run around setting up waypoint bookmarks so my slow as poop mining/transport ships only have to use warp to get around...even to dock. very handy.

It's pretty intuitive once you realize you always warp in about 15km from the station/jumpgate/asteroidbelt, plus the fact you can set your own waypoints, equals creating waypoints ~14km "past" where you actually want to jump to.

MINING
I use an Amarr 'Omen' cruiser to mine which has 4 slots i can use with mining I uniques. (with mining3 my three gaussians rake in 48m3 /minute; my one XeCL rakes in 54m3/min)

I jettison the first minute's load into space and keep stuffing that baby till i've reached 6336.0 volume. It takes 16-32 minutes to get enough ore into the jettisoned cache.
    for 6336m3 ore...32 minutes
  • 5,275 Kernite (165units/min)
  • 21,120 Pyroxeres (660units/min)
  • 42,240 Scordite (1320units/min)
  • 63,360 Veldspar (1980units/min)
After that i pick up any extra loot & ore and head back to base to switch to my "Indy" ship.

TRANSPORTING
My Amarr 'Bestower' Industrial ship with one Cargo expander "alpha" unique gives 6436m3 cargo; i have a small container and a giant one as well)
    currently training Industrial level so i can do away with the giant container
After the small tool/loot container takes 100m3, i have exactly the amount i need to transport the ore back to dock.

REFINING
Taking the facts listed above for skills and the station's corp standing to me, i get these refining results:
    for 6336m3 volume total for each ore type...
  • Kernite (leftover is 80 units)
    1. Isogen 4371
    2. Mexallon 8754
    3. Nocxium 0
    4. Pyerite 0
    5. Tritanium 4371
      refined volume total is 175m3
  • Pyroxeres (leftover is 141 units)
    1. Isogen 0
    2. Mexallon 6586
    3. Nocxium 603
    4. Pyerite 3238
    5. Tritanium 46322
      refined volume total is 567.5m3
  • Scordite (leftover is 282 units)
    1. Isogen 0
    2. Mexallon 0
    3. Nocxium 0
    4. Pyerite 45663
    5. Tritanium 91437
      refined volume total is 1371m3
  • Veldspar (leftover is 90 units)
    1. Isogen 0
    2. Mexallon 0
    3. Nocxium 0
    4. Pyerite 0
    5. Tritanium 165500
      refined volume total is 1655.2m3
    SALES
    Now, Penirgman 9.11 has a guy there named Clayton Leep who gives the best price (and largest demand volume) for Pyerite (6.7isk) and Tritanium (2.0isk) in the domain...he's kinda stingy on purchasing Isogen and particularly Mexallon.

    I actually prefer to mine Kernite and whip around in my Amarr Executioner carrying the Isogen (84.33isk) and Mexallon (19.17isk) to whatever station will take that amount for the best price and pretty close (within 5 jumps)
    • kernite total sales ~ 540,000 (works out to ~41.5k isk per 400unit refine batch)
    • Pyroxeres total sales ~ 400,000 (works out to ~6.35k isk per 333unit refine batch)
    • Scordite total sales ~ 490,000 (works out to ~3.89k isk per 333unit refine batch)
    • Veldspar total sales ~ 330,000 (works out to ~1.74k isk per 333unit refine batch)
    I'll be seeing what a mining1 n00b can do. Assuming that i've munchkinized to a level3 frigate.

    Last edited by Heretic on Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    BaadF00d
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Its level 4. Command School gives *** Frigate Level IV.
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    Heretic
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    man, i am sooooooooo glad you weren't here earlier. i had typos and miscalculations up the wazoo. you woulda had a field day.


    hmmmmmmm...out of curiousity i looked up buy prices for ore just on the off chance lack of refining skill makes ore sales a better idea for n00bs.

    Sarum Prime
    • Kernite for 81.0 isk per unit. (for 6336m3 of it you'd get 427,275 isk)
    • Pyroxeres at 18.0 isk per unit. (for 6336m3 of it you'd get 380,160 isk)
    • Scordite for 10.51 isk per unit. (for 6336m3 of it you'd get 443,942 isk)
    • Veldspar for 5.11 isk per unit. (for 6336m3 of it you'd get 323770 isk)
    huh. means if you can't refine worth poop don't even bother, just sell the ore
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Well, the critical thing about the eve economy is that all the prices you get as a noob for ore and minerals are the result of player placed buy orders.

    Because the production oriented players have high refining skills as well as good standings with the refining stations, they can get a *lot* more mineral from a given quantity of ore. They thus tend to place buy orders for ore that reflect the amount of minerals THEY can extract from the ore. As a result, until your own refining skills are good enough to achive close to perfect refining - dont bother - sell the ore.
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    Bhurak
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    PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    back in the day, my friends and i woudl sell directly in yulai, using instas to indy all the mins there. generally got a decent price.


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    Heretic
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    PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



    Here's me in "Xeno's Arrow" (omen cruiser) with 3 vespa drones guarding me while i fire 4 XeCL mining lasers at kernite roids.
    w00t!





    okay, i've been mulling over what's been going on in the squad channel and i'm going to see if just sticking to safe 0.9-1.0 systems and selling bulk makes decent cash compared to running around with kernite markets.

    Let's start off by assuming nothing. As a semi-n00b i can mine 175units of kernite every minute in perfect safety (see screenshot above)...In the below example it's obviously taken me a good 2 hours, including haulage (bestower,) to get 18,903 units of kernite -- That's 22,683m3 volume.

    Is it better to sell ore, or refine? What's the current demand for kernite?

    So 81.00 isk @ 18,903units = 1.53million isk

    Okay, what do i get from refining? using skill lvl4 and corp standing at base

    http://majorfreak.eve-evol.com/Eve-online/SellingVSrefining2.jpg

    And the prices? Well, for Tritanium at Penirgman 9.11 it's 2.0 isk per, so a paltry 31.6k isk add to...

    Now, Sisters of Eve are giving an awesome deal which i haven't seen the likes in a week of playing, so it's a bit biased...anyways, the total for refining and selling is:
    31.5k for tritanium + 1406.5k for Isogen + 728k for Mexallon = 2.166 million isk

    Now, i was chatting with my squaddies and they like mining scordite and veldspar in safe havens and think it's cost effective. Let's see what 22,683m3 (151,220units) of refined scordite goes for on the market, shall we?

    At bulk ore prices at Sarum Prime (@11.26 isk) that would be 1,703k isk (very impressive compared to my kernite ore sale)
      but, what about the refined amount. can we get better? i'd actually have to mine that amount just to be sure, but i'd hesitate to say it would be more than what i'd get for selling refined kernite. Although, extrapolating from my first post above i can safely say these are the results:
      • 163,475units Pyerite
      • 327,346units Tritanium
      taking usual price these days at penirgman at 6.3isk & 2.0isk the total take on the refined sales would be ~ 1.685million isk
    Yeah, i know, that dude at penirgman lowered the demand price from 6.7isk (pyerite)...sucks.

    Anyways, i think it's fun to mine in 0.7 space


    Last edited by Heretic on Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:14 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Heretic
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    PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    heh. i was kinda suspicious of that 0.3 secstat system deal...went in with a tormentor with zero cargo and sniffed around. seemed safe so warped in with minimal stuff and full cargo. Guess what? prices went poof. lol. Good thing i scout ahead of time and snuck in carefully. funny story.

    hmmm...okay, so the going rate NORMALLY for isogen and mexallon is tricky. Nobody ever posts huge volumes (unless it's a trap. hehe) so it comes down to researching where is the best place to mine. looks like it's hoosa constellation in the domain sector.

    Getting semi-consistent pricings of 84-88 isk for isogen, and 17-19 isk for mexallon in Hoosa constellation. Enough for me to consider buying a spare Bestower for that sector. (and volumes usually in the 31k range)
      worst case scenario is selling to the shipyards at sarum prime 6.7.
    • Isogen @ 81 isk
    • Mexallon @ 11.6 isk
        total = 1.68million isk
      sarum prime 6.7 shipyards also buys pyerite at 6.40isk & tritanium at 2.06isk...At the moment this the the best place to sell ore and minerals in Domain region. (although, Amarr Emperor's station give 6.51isk for pyerite/2.01isk for tritanium)
    I am getting tired of the rat race though. Might think of taking up the safe Scordite pursuit.
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    Heretic
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    PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    okay, let's play with Scordite. First off i use three ships:
    1. Shuttle (for setting waypoints to and from refinery, roidbelt & market...hopefully refining&selling can be done same place, but this test is going to assume it's somewhere else)
    2. Omen cruiser with 4 turret slots (3 XeCL lasers, 1 Gaussian), 5 low slots (Expanded Cargo)
        with mining3 i rake in 210m3/minute, or 1400units/min Scordite; Discovered the 18% is cumulative, so total cargo 1029.5m3, or 6660units scordite with 30.5m3 surplus for gear - usually 5 slot1 items
    3. Bestower Indy with 4 low slots (3 partial cargos & 1 alpha cargo)
        with industrial at 3 that's supposed to give me 9462m3 cargo capacity...doesn't sound right. i'll have to test that. Ah i got the 3500m3 number from Eve database fansite. must be obsolete. it's actually more than that now.
      • Basic
      • Industrial lvl3
      • Modules added
    So, the big question is this: How do i use my Omen cruiser with it's base 450m3 cargo capacity to haul the refined minerals to market in one go with full capacity?
    1. Refining service that gives 50% plus my Refining 4 skill makes 90.5% output.
    2. The basic minimum needed is 333units (or 49.95m3)
    3. in a perfect world that would give 4.16m3 of pyerite & 8.33m3 of Tritanium
    4. As it is i lose 9.5% plus whatever percentage the station takes from the 'non-waste' total.
    5. Now, i tend to use a station where i have 1.69 standing at HZO corp (connections skill is REALLY helpful at boosting corp standing) that gives a discount on the base 5% station take to a not-round number of 3.74%
    6. okay, so i get 362.35 pyerite & 725.65 tritanium (totalling 10.88m3 after refining 49.95m3 of scordite)
        you'll notice the fractions. That's because i've been using alot more than 333units to work these numbers to avoid the "rounding off" mess...i believe one get's twice as much tritanium as pyerite so those numbers are juuuuuuust off by a tad
    7. So, i've got 10.88m3 as the building block. Dividing my Omen's base cargo hold of 450 by that number gives me the integer of "41" (dropping the fractions)
    8. This means i can "refine" 41 times 333 units of scordite, stuff the resulting pyerite (14,856units) and tritanium (29,752units) into my 450m3 cargo hold, giving me just 4m3 spare in my ship.
        please assume this is approximate. I'll get exact numbers once i've done this in person...will post in the 'appendix'
    9. now we get to the juicy bit: 41*333=13653 units of scordite=2048m3
    10. hmmm...well, that's two full loads of scordite ore in my 1029.6m3 cargo space omen (leaving me only 5m3 to spare when i thought i had 29.5m3)
        okay, just means leaving my 5 low slot gear at the refining base is all
    Guess i really didn't need that bestower anyways (just two trips in my omen - mining configuration)

    But, what's the profit on that 450 cargo hold worth of refined scordite?
    • 14,856 pyerite * 6.4isk = 95,078
    • 29,752 * 2.06isk = 81,889
    • total is 176,967isk
    Not bad for 10 minutes of mining, plus whatever time it takes to scout out the waypoints (maybe 5minutes) and haul the stuff back (two trips; maybe 5minutes) plus transporting it in a souped up Omen to market (maybe 10minutes)....about 1/2hour's worth of work for 180k


    Of course, if i used that bestower? Well, then, i'll add those calculations in the appendix.



    APPENDIX
    la la la

    okay, finally, here it is:
    http://majorfreak.eve-evol.com/Eve-online/SellingVSrefining6.jpg
    http://majorfreak.eve-evol.com/Eve-online/SellingVSrefining7.jpg
    http://majorfreak.eve-evol.com/Eve-online/SellingVSrefining8.jpg
    http://majorfreak.eve-evol.com/Eve-online/SellingVSrefining9.jpg

    damn, i was right on the money. cool. okay, now the bestower:
    • assuming we're working with a souped up bestower at 5520m3 cargo we'll divide that by 10.88m3 and get the integer "507"
        means i get 3.84m3 extra space for munchies
    • 507*333=168831units=25,325m3
        obviously, we'll need the bestower to haul this stuff from the roidbelt, taking two trips (229m3 spare as well)
    • refining said scordite ore gets me 183712 pyerite & 367905 tritanium (approx)
    • Stuff my bestower to the rim and head off to market garnering me $$$$$ to the tune of 1.934million isk
    Of course, mining THAT much volume will take me 121minutes alone. Two hours work (plus haulage of about, oh, 15minutes?) for almost 2million. Hmmmm

    course, the key to this whole thread is now to figure out the same above equation, but this time with Kernite
    • well, the base minimum volume of refined isogen&mexallon (ignoring the tritanium) is 10.1m3
    • 5520/10.1= an integer of "546" giving me about 4.4m3 spare in my souped up bestower going to market
    • now, this is just ridiculous, 546*400units of kernite=218400=262,080m3
    • okay, dream on. Anyways, let's just say 121minutes of mining (just like we did with the scordite) giving us 21,104 units of kernite...we only need 20800
    • integer being "52" we times that by the base refinement of 336.28 isogen (17,487units total) & 673.40 mexallon (35017units total)
    • actual cargo space is 525m3
    • profit? well, assuming lowest price at SarumPrime shipyards
      • isogen @ 81.0isk = 1.416million isk
      • mexallon @ 11.6 = 0.406million isk
      • grand total of 1.822million isk
    Of course, remember this is rockbottom prices here. those volumes are perfect for chasing after the highest bidder. Assuming max prices at 89isogen &23mexallon you'd get 2.362million isk. That's 400k isk more than what you'd get doing boring Scordite runs in 1.0 space...btw, don't forget the bounties for rats in 0.7 space (probably the same $$$ value you'd get selling the tritanium i didn't bother adding up)


    Last edited by Heretic on Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Bhurak
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    PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Kernite is good. If you can get into Gallente space, omber is also good, and tnds to be in higher sec.

    Thing is, most of the ore until you hit 0.0 all refines in the neighborhood of 1.5 M to 1.8M So you have to ask yourself if the the extra few hundred thousand is worth the difficulty.

    Often it's not because if you dump the protection and go full mining loadout, the extra speed will make up for the lower refining values.

    Basically, until shiva comes out, Scord is the best to mine. money wise



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    PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    damn...look at this: I have 305355 units of Scordite. (at 1400/min that took me about 4 hours work)
      Best demand prices were at Sarum Prime Shipyards (again)
    • Ore @ 12.5 isk = 3.82 million
    • 331969 refined pyerite @ 6.3 isk = 2.09million
    • 664737 tritanium @ 2.04 isk = 1.36million
    Impressively, even with refining 4, Scordite ore goes for 400k more than the refined listing. Of course, the volumes can be prohibitive: 45803m3 for the scordite. (that's about 4 trips with my bestower)
      located at Sayartchen HZO refinery about 4 jumps away...i have the waypoint plotted, just is it worth that extra 400k to haul that much? Whereas the refined minerals could be done in one trip alone.
    let's see now, the trips back and forth would be 8 minutes * 6 extra trips than the one with the refined minerals = 48 * 16k (about what i'd make per minute mining) = 768k isk. Kinda seems pointless to haul ore anywhere than the refining station
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    PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:57 am    Post subject: respawns - shiva Reply with quote

    Vivus Mors wrote:
    also, if you look at the tables, it's VERY VERY low odds of very rare minerals spawning in care bear areas, much less in any significant quantity...

    remember, this is for the whole system, broken up by belt, and then each asteroid and how much it will regenerate...

    http://www.eve-online.com/features/exodus/mining/

    according to that, the chance of so much as one asteroid going down to arkanor levels from typical 1.0 system standards, is approximately 0.07% or if you prefer, 7 out of nearly 10,000 odds of just one rock becoming rareÖ now on first though, you may think thatís actually not too bad since there are millions of rocks in newbie space, but remember, that isnít on the whole, thatís every single spawn has those oddsÖ so itís not like flipping a coin where youíll basically average out, in this instance, itís much more like the lottery, you donít always have a winner, and in fact the odds are greatly against a ďwinnerĒ in that caseÖ

    even going down just 1 level is a 25% chance, but that means itís 3 to one that it wonít happen at all, per regenerated rockÖ even thatís not great odds, and thatís just going from veldspar to scordite for instance... 75% chance that a given rock wonít truncate down a levelÖ I donít know about you, but the better money is betting it wonít change than that it willÖ

    and when youíre going down further and further levels, the odds just fall through the floor in rapid action of getting any sort of decent upgrade in the oreÖ

    and letís say you do, one rock? A few of them maybe? So youíve got a few more scordite rocks in the veldspar field :D

    lol HORAY!!! Lol

    itís certainly welcome, and will be interesting, but youíre better off betting your money in a lottery :D at least then you know if you donít win the money is likely going to a civil causeÖ


    Chicky Choker wrote:
    Not sure if this has changed since exodus as there is a slight chance that a rare rock will spawn in higher sec space.

    Veldspar - Everywhere
    Scordite - Everywhere
    Plagioclase - Up to 0.9
    Pyroxeres - Up to 0.8
    Omber - Up to 0.8 (maybe 0.7)
    Kernite - Up to 0.8
    Jaspet - Up to 0.4
    Hedbergite - Up to 0.3 (maybe 0.2)
    Hemorphite - Up to 0.2
    Gniess - Not sure
    Dark Ockre - Not sure
    Crokite - 0.0
    Spodumain - 0.0
    Bistot - 0.0
    Arkanor - 0.0

    Hope this helps
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    found a sweet ore calculator (it takes all inputs, not just the simple ones) http://www.mi-lo.co.uk/modules.php?name=ore&file=veldspar
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    here's a better timer that dings every minute (get custom sounds also)
      i prefer the "lighting.wav" - it's actually quite a soft sound...distant thunder
    wtg
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