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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:30 am    Post subject: OP-Doofus Reply with quote

07-22-2003 01:10 JOSSH-News posts "Tangent production at Hyperial!" (sourced through quantar FM)

07-22-2003 14:59 OP-Abaddon posts "Answer: Current opinion among the OP / GM team is that under the current RoC the situation described above is not a grief kill. "

thread devolves into a tangent where OP-doofus has no freaking comprehension of what function a certain f5:qbld chat booth has beyond apparently some "neutral ground for a short debate followed by a forum post to initiate discussion"...certainly he's totally clueless how rabidly i protect that booth's raison d'etre, especially from (what he describes as) polite pirates discussing KOS issues.

i'm sure noone there raised eyebrows at the complete condescension. I myself am a little amazed at how OP-doofus strings me along...

quote]As promised in QBLD this evening, somewhere to discuss this issue. [/quote]quote]2...but it may well be so in the future and thus it was only resaonable to give the pirates fair warning of this.
3) I then re-logged in my OP account (this one) and invited the pirates involved into QBLD. I could have set up a seperate F5, but seeing as all the people involved were already in QBLD it seemed more convienent to hold the discussion there.
4) In the course of the discussion it became clear that it was going to take more time and space than we had aviable that night....[/quote]
lmao "fair warning" "qbld convenient" "in the course of the discussion it became clear".... rofl

Hi! i know you folks have nothing better to do that host a reasonable forum to let those nice pirates know KOS for traps is being considered griefing. it'll only take a second

As for the hoopla surrounding this BURNING ISSUE? oh yeah, convenient timing. I was referring specifically to the coincidence of FM = burning issue over traps...and, my oh my, isn't it just convenient the non-pirate actors are in F5:qbld...and, my oh my, OP-doofus seems to use flawed and missing logic when posting on the forums. Bet it was a total treat for f5:qbld to host that "discussion" with such a skilled orator as chairman.

I'm sorry, but polite pirates discussing whether or not KOS on anyone using traps on a noncombatant faction channel DURING a FM is about the stupidest pile of manure i've ever heard of...i don't care if they were direct descendents of Gandhi and Mother Teresa.

hell, the fact MG considered traps = KOS = legit kill "currently" didn't rate even a was just so bloody typically stupifying

BTW, I'm quite floored OP-doofus actually based his whole theme on the old pirate fallacy of "defensive/offensive" issue of traps. wtf i'm not even going to bother debating that non-issue since it's biased, a priori, towards the pirate camp (OP-doofus obvious doesn't realize it's a flawed argument)
    since it's a nonissue i'm not explaining it since it's offtopic here
personally, i doubt the pirates in question formed a conspiracy to manipulate OP-doofus. i think Doofus took them by surprise by taking on the "peacemaker" role, especially since Doofus uses such lousy base assumptions i'm not surprised the pirates were polite -- more like reeling in shock over what a mark the doofus is. (imagine trying to use such an obvious flawed argument against KOS-traps)

i'm not sure what's more stupifying: MG's current stance or OP-doofus' opposite opinion cum-apologist-wannabe...I smell a Devil's Advocate

the flawed argument wrote:
It all comes down to which side of the defenisve / offensive weapon side of the fence you are with respect to a trap.
  • If you consider a trap to be an offensive weapon against pirates then your position makes perfect sense. It's the same as if the trader had actively shot your mate down.
  • On the other hand if you view the trap as a defensive weapon then there is a problem. The pirate was doing something illegal and should have known the risks he faced, hence there is nothing to avenge by the fact that he got killed by a trap.

insane WTF :urstupid: not :BEEEP: yernuts
there is no bloody IF/THEN equation you doofus!

Last edited by MajorFreak on Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's bloody simple: ganking anyone for anything other than self-defense (or various other honorable reasons) is considered griefing.
    what muffy considers honorable rips:
  • career spies or career chat griefers
  • defending a 303 blue on blue incident while escorting to clear
  • contract hit that's clearly not a proxy grief
  • obvious station strippers
  • FM broker I.O.U. conmen
  • taking down a logistic supplier of a squad you're at war with
  • taking down any civ during a squad total war event that's involved in those squads
  • obvious flux stealer/dumper
  • tow bumper
  • bounty seeder
  • christ, the list goes on...
  • defending yourself while trying to work off a perm.bounty versus vigilantes (especially if you've just civripped for any of the above reasons)
that list really does go on and on...i'm quite flabbergasted how myopic most PvPers get when they nitpick specifics (i usually end up defending their positions when they get all flustered)
    let me state clearly now that GANKING A TRADER FOR USING TRAPS IS GRIEFING. period.

I feel like Al-Jazeera

Last edited by MajorFreak on Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anyways, the only "offensive" bit to a trap is how offended pirate WINGAME button whiners cry about their sensibilities. like we somehow fucking cared when they used to tell us to grab a gun and fight back (or better yet, hire those ohhhh so easy to obtain escort careerists)
    or "join a squad for protection (tm)"
but the instant we start objecting to the "popular cries for fair and equitable nerfage" we're labelled as uncaring callous brutes "clouding the important issues"

*shrug* Far as i'm concerned, as far as this potential change in RoC by MG, it's up to the pirate to decide whether or not he's gonna get banned for civripping some trader who dastardly allowed some pirate buddy to blow themselves up on a trap. (gee, you mean they'll actually start having to respect the OOC player [& IC pilot] instead of exploiting the RoC like it was their own personal bitch?)
    geee...maybe they might even start to understand how OOC & IC doesn't mean how well you can exploit the RoC/game engine
The current system of unofficial legit KOS for trap usage is pretty sickening in and of itself...Gods, i don't even wanna discuss it.

for those a little confused as to muffy's take on what should be the RoC: the griefing bit of trap retaliation would only be against someone who warned they had traps onboard. (or an obvious griefing excuse for those not giving fair warning)
    *shrug* *boggle* personally, that'll never see the light of day though - MightyGames would never install that, citing "exploits" - yeah, the "we can't be arsed to think beyond WINGAME button" exploit of the fanboi/wynar nerfherders sucking on MG teets...and jeezuz h christ! it's not like the current RoC doesn't get 'exploited' by carebears/griefers alike in their neverending attempts to get each other to quit/get banned.
and they get snotty with me when i accuse EU f5:help of being the same fanboi/wynar cesspit as US server.

I don't feel as much like Al Jazeera as i do a bloody Cassandra complex, FFS

Last edited by MajorFreak on Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holy crap! this entire thread above should be considered flawed. flawed in favour of pirates. i'd assumed that pirate scanners didn't get FULL cargo manifests (minus traps)...listening to the confused ramblings of pirates and well intentioned, but misinformed, traders didn't help much. damnit.

screw them. KOS for trap usage = griefing. period. see here for total rant on MG forums:

*shrug* personally, it's always up to the pilot in question to decide whether or not they've been griefed and complain that the RoC was violated. *shrug* i personally never encountered a situation where i felt i was 'griefed', per se...hell, i'd probably carry a few traps onboard and if some pirate sucked one back i'd probably watch my six and expect one or two revenge ganks. (hypothetical really, anything more i probably would consider it a nuisance)
    bloody impossible to have me consider anything griefing when applied to my pilot ingame. *shrug* At least i'm not so stupid as to expect my opinion to be shared by the vast majority of MMOG customers.
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