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EP2 wynar mode goes into overdrive (claims)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 1:34 pm    Post subject: EP2 wynar mode goes into overdrive (claims) Reply with quote

Amen-Ra (i swear this guy's a dead ringer for one of Innominate's bum buddies wrote:
Themis: Sector Claiming Harrassment
The lameness has started. Some people have begun to claim sectors and when disputed, quickly jump out waiting for the disputor to leave. We are unable to challenge them in the next sector (unless they have claimed it and we dispute it - again). This is only a problem in REG sectors.

Now, with all the bugs, I am not sure what rules are really implemented however, I would like to suggest.....

That when a sector is being disputed, all pilots envolved in the disputed instantly become Honor Guard (HG). That way, the lamers/harrassers can not just run off to the next sector and thumb their nose at the other. I would prefer that the FIST stay on (instead of the HG Symbol) so I know who to pursue.

ALSO pls fix the FIST...

The FIST should NOT show up on my own squad mates but only show up on the other party. Right now, the FIST is very random or doesn't even show up. If you do shoot at them and they don't have a fist you may take a bounty.

OK, start flamming away....

#1. HG switch in space is an exploit the throttle jockeys have tried to sleaze since registry was created
#2. looks like he wants the Fist to be also exploitable

having said that i wonder why /claim isn't restricted to HG only. i'm actually quite amazed this isn't the case. why not? Besides, why do the claimants get to keep their claim when they jump out while contested? (i think i'm going to read up on this stuff now...)
    of course, i think the whining is because of the 10 minute time span. WTF is so important about nerfing that to 5minutes? greedy? yup
JOSSH flightacademy wrote:
Issuing the /sq claim command in a sector will transfer the claim to your squad if the sector is unclaimed, or if no members of the claiming squad are present to defend their claim. If members of the claiming squad are present, all TRI regulations on combat between members of your squads are rescinded within the disputed sector only. A disputing squad must destroy or drive out of the sector all members of the claiming squad or other disputing squads to prove their right to claim the sector. The claiming squad may also destroy or drive out of the sector any members of disputing squads. However, as long as disputing squad ships remain in the sector, the claiming squad is also obligated to send a ship through the beacon at least once every ten minutes to prove they are maintaining control of sector travel. Should the claiming squad fail in this duty, they cease receiving an award from TRI until the dispute is settled.

uhm... hm okay, like WTF is wrong with Amen-Ra's brain? I think he's trolling, for sure, unless things are completely different in reality than written up on JOSSH
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the JOSSH flight academy is accurate.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JumpDemon wrote:
There is no point since once a squad claims it they can be killed without repercusion. Oh wait, don't tell me peeps is doing a bait and switch and diving back into safe sectors hoping to lure someone into a bounty? That would be, well that would be unheard of in the TRI universe.
Jotei wrote:
I agree that you should be HG to claim sectors, but I do not agree with the last point - that it should revert as soon as the claimant leaves. However, I do think that the "must fly through once every 10 minutes" rule should always be in effect - not just during disputes. That way if a squadmate doesn't take up the defense of the squad, it'll drop.

Disputes rarely last ten minutes.

The current system allows civilians to get a sneak attack on honor guards, as they can dispute the sector and immediately attack. That's not cool. It also allows variants on bounty seeding, such as the bait and switch described above. Having to be HG to claim solves most of these problems.
[Spam]Navy wrote:
One of the nastier exploits i have seen with the sector claiming system is how a pilot can follow a civ tow until the tow gets into a sector claimed by his squad. Then the pilot can dispute the sector claim, get the fist on the tow, and down the poor bastard.

I know tow pilots should be escorted but dammit man.... I don't wanna have to wait on squadies to log on just so I can go mining for a few hours.

How do you fix it..... dunno. Should it be fixed.... dunno.

The fist aint working all the time anyway. Still getting temp and perm bounties sometimes when you shouldn't.

I don't buy the "NO" votes. why? because i do not consider the claim system to be a substitute for the squad war system...i see this as an extension of the beek flip system, and by the very nature of holding territory to be aggressive towards TRI cooperative efforts.

(i make this distinct from squad warfare because, simply put, noone but the two squads using squad war have any business with the squad war...since it's individual, therefore it is not considered HG only.)
    i think i'm starting to wonder what exactly the idiots who decided about the "Fist" wanted to achieve? the fist looks like a wonderful Squad War icon.
Personally, i think there was a definite agenda going on that wanted the exploits inherent in this. It's obvious if you know what the mechanisms are to this you'll see the exploits clear as day, unless you've got alot of spindoctored pablum that Nelson *cough*roy*cough* and the rest of the goons use to ween ND off of common sense.

but, i do not trust Amen-Ra's ideas farther than i can throw them...he's making it suspiciously complicated.
  1. Make it so that only HG can claim, and HG can collect XP/CR (let's be intelligent about the reward system as well, k?)
  2. Make it so that only HG can dispute. (along with the dispute rules which i seem to have difficulty understanding due to confusion about JOSSH inaccuracies)
  3. i don't even know why the "Fist" is necessary. seems like alot of bother over nothing

WidowMaker wrote:
HG only works right until the poor [noncombat] pilot flies back through those sectors when someone pops in to dispute the claim. Miners and cargo haulers get real skittish when they suddenly realize they have 3 sectors in either direction where they can be shot at.

I personally think the HG requirement is a bad idea... sector claims should be between the disputing squads only, and forcing everybody to be HG would just allow any yahoo to join the brawl. That's fine for unreg. space, but sector claiming is about choosing your battleground, not about opening yourself to attack by anybody anywhere.

#1. total BS. you telling me that Sector Claiming should even be anywhere close to something Miners and Haulers can do so casually? (that's willfully blind to the exploits to the point of brainwashing. been fed a diet of happy spam, widow? shame on you)

#2. total BS. Excuse me? "choosing your battleground" may be fine and dandy for the Squad Warfare system due out, but when you claim a sector you bloody well should be open to other HG pilots, and if you restrict disputers to HG as well you eliminate that stupid logic of "anybody anywhere"

personally, i smell a big phat exploit factory that was in the making as soon as PvPers heard about it through the TP grapevine; keep the damn Squad Warfare stuff to SQUAD WARFARE system and grab some bloody common sense!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ridgeway/Aethemos wrote:
Sector claiming was initially meant to create 'consentual PvP' - against the advice of people more involved in the social aspect of JG, ND and the TPs pretty much stood by their idea that a system like this would work. Lets face it - it doesn't. 'Consentual PvP' as a concept is completely bogus, unless you remove penaltys - like in sim or in HG.

The rewards are quite bogus, a constant trickle of exp - great, now we get even more level 50s, just what we needed. The only thing achieved by these rewards is more confusion over the actual intent of sector claiming - add to that the horrid mechanics making for really, really messy and no-fun fights (everything under the banner of 'We don't want ganks, we don't want to deal with politics') and you've got a system thats far, far more broken than just requiring HG to claim.

The whole thing needs a larger rethink of what claiming was intended to provide, not this wishy-washy 'here have a cookie' stuff.
wtg one of the few times i agree with him, but i'm leary of the apparent "HG switch inflight" exploit being left uncritiqued. (i sense an agenda to gain HGswitch inflight again)
    the point is he made an excellent rebuttal of the current broken system but made no equally loquatious suggestion, which leads me to suspect he wants HGinflight switcherooo exploit
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

great! lol. now we've got Larommi and Amen-Ra in a catfight

neither of them making sense
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MG general forum thread
absolutely massive problems with the "FIST" icon. personally, they should chuck the damn thing and keep "fist" stuff to squad warfare and separate from issues of beekflipping/sectorclaiming (which should be HG only stuff)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2003 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GymCee wrote:
I gotta say this is a real bummer, keeping track of what your entire squad is doing can be tough at the best of times, for miners who will regularly nip afk to do other things whilst mining its impossible. I would state that on any and all occasions when you intend to attack a miner you do not kill it until you have had comms with the pilot (maybe just shoot it a couple of times). Given that most miners are poor fighters even when fully armed and empty, there is little risk to the aggressor in waiting until such a time as comms have been undertaken. If as in the case of sector claiming it is required for the miner to move on then almost any fighter has what it takes to take one down that refuses. As with almost all these in game issues a little moderation won’t hurt most of the time and will certainly cut down on the number of complaints.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hez wrote:
I have no idea why it's here, because its useless. Well, not useless, but it doesn't do what it says on the tin. By claiming a sector, you effectivly declare war on the squad that was holding the sector beforehand, and by staying in it you get 2PR points for the faction's space you are guarding, and some experiance/money depending on your level. Ok, edit. Forgot why it's useless. Basically, people arn't arsed with who claims their sectors (with a few exceptions) and basically claim sectors when they are mining. When you dispute a claim to a sector, and a squad member from the squad that owns the sector is present, you can attack them, civ or not. There was a funny thread earlier on about a guy who started whining because he was killed when he was mining and he claimed the sector. So that's why it's crap.
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