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EP2 wynar mode goes into overdrive (FF)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 9:23 am    Post subject: EP2 wynar mode goes into overdrive (FF) Reply with quote

FS_Space wrote:
what does this do for JG? NOTHING BUT BAD! ppl will still have same amount in fights, and will use them the same amount as usual, like missiles that only cost 5k. so pointless for pvp purposes, its like buying missiles every launch, which is a normal thing.

newbies....sorry newbies but now every time u get in trouble and have to flashfire away with that wonderful brokered item u have to go waste more of ur money and time finding and buying another 1. yay.

newbs get screwed, stockers get overwhelmed, stocks get killed, ffs go scarce AGAIN, aman gets rich, ITS STUPID!

so i ask
1 use....what is it good for?

I think the n00bs will do fine, information is better than a "get out of stupidity" card any day of the week...and information once gained is never lost, unlike brokered FFs. (never liked that idea anyways.)
    it was like /give for the "santa claus" types...too bad /give is still in existence, owing to the undying spam techniques of the moral majority in the TP program
offtopic I'm more concerned about the POS upkeep costs. And here we had all this official pablum spouted on Gamespy and other news sites that even casual players would be able to afford POS

MACHINE wrote:'s my opinion that they did it to stop the quick launch expploit.

With the cost of PoS it will be too cumbersome having to make creds for the station and hual everything for ffs too.
Larommi wrote:
Well now it will be more cost effective to load PWD (reusable) instead of FF (expendable) for the MS spams(expendable).

rofl you should see all the [SOL]Navy types spamming that FFs are nerfed lmao

Teonix wrote:
I logged on for a few mere minutes after i first noticed ep2 was out, and the first thing I saw was whining/complaints.. rather pathetic if you ask me. Hold your tongue and try it out first. I'm so sick of people who whine the instant something isn't how THEY want it, even if its for the betterment of the game.

Last edited by MajorFreak on Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just saw that ThemisGroup has posted news to USENET (i believe that's Arch0n who's mr.Macris)
    pretty sure he'll ignore me, which is a good thing. now if i could only get OP-Toast to stfu
BTW, here is the non-flammable EP2 POS (&misc) issues summary, and here is the official announcements synopsis

Last edited by MajorFreak on Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ophistes (just after GMHollis said the same thing) wrote:
It's the very first, very small niche traders fit in. A spot where haulers are needed by the PvP crowd to sustain the demand for a piece of equipment everyone wants to have in continual supply.

Shoot the tow en route to Aman and FF production might be endangered.

It creates some new, economically important hauls. It creates opportunities to build stuff - good for the people who want to 'bake bread' in a constructive manner that has *impact* on the game.

Last edited by MajorFreak on Wed Mar 19, 2003 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giomani wrote:
FF were one use only in beta and they made them permanant because after testing we found it better and more fun.

Noobs will die more not being able to escape big flux.
It wont stop instalaunching at all.... wtf are you on? that needs to be addressed as a serious exploit by MG and ND.
As for combat it is going to have one result... he who has FF will win. take this example....Octs are fighting Sols at wake, Sols have a tow open in station providing Sols with FF's...... result.... All Octs die.
As for your TOW thing dont you think Docking Modx take more fun out of docking than FF's do.
Basically there is no actual benefit to this FF thing and lots of downsides. Just cuz you are a MG lacky doesn't mean you got to agree with ND on this.
FF use was tested fully in beta and fefuelable FF was decided as being the best meathod. Why suddenly change something that has worked perfectly for 2 years?

Giomani, like Raiderr, is a fully qualified Lobbyist for the tobacco...uh...i mean "WINGAME" button realpolitik party. Notice how he not only brings in the plight of the n00bs, the unfairness of offensive operations, the fact that OPs/GMs naturally suck up to MG/ND. As per his "modus operanti", Giomani is skilled at picking the worse argument and replying to that as though it encapsulated the entire "pro-new-FF" concept.
  1. n00bs won't be harmed by this, because real n00bs don't venture near places they need FF unless they're lazy twinkers or powerlevelling spammers. (FF oneshot happened long before i joined)
  2. the best defense is not a good offense because of logistics. duh
  3. I've seen OPs/GMs publically state their opinion is contrary to policy many times. I don't think MG hires gofers (unlike some squad's hiring policies)
In short, Giomani counts on Demagogue tactics to get his "WINGAME" button back.

Nazgul (wynar mode) wrote:

Alas, too bad we couldn't eradicate the nix/tens/phoon supremicists altogether, but you can't code out fanboi/wynars. (the type that say that unlimited FF use is essential for balanced play and a requirement on a ship to make it flyable)
    notice they take pity on their "opponents" if they're skilled trolls. nothing beats pity when sleazing your "WINGAME" button exploit...And that FF has been an expoit that's imbalanced things alot more than those with agendas let i love the troll tactic of including both Artifacts and Player/Squad quality as valid balance issues. oh woe is me.
ah...i see Nazgul did a 180 turn and is supporting oneuseFF in a major way (no surprise there, they tend to be rabid fanbois of ND's; stalinistic revisionists)
Nazgul (fanboi mode) wrote:
    i guess they figured there was more percentage to screw over the community by being fanbois than being wynars
hm Good or bad, things got alot more interesting...but what does Muffy really think? I believe Oldfenster is using 'devil's advocate' to undermine the "unnerf FF" crowd.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CDK wrote:
Just somethings I thought up while reading this thread:
  1. noobs don't use flashfires, they die. And they enjoy it.
  2. Tows only really need flashfires for heavy hauling. We will have two new ships whip massive engines and large cargo holds soon™.
  3. modx are not insured.
  4. Flashfires are cheap. New tow pilots who want to learn about production or whatever can get good experience.Lets stop taking away things that give value to the activities a lot of people enjoy. 1 use flashfires hurt no one and actually will give people something useful to do. (Yes it hurts no one. So what if the average sol re-launch time goes up to 30 seconds. Normally takes my a couple of minutes )
  5. Does this eliminate those wierd bugs that caused flashfires to be refueled inflight?
PLEASE get off these boards and log in and do a FM mission or something. I want a new piece of equipment or a ship or something available by the time I get home. I did say please.
Kage333 wrote:
Well, here is one sol who thinks overall it was a good idea.
  1. From a PvP perspective, I have to land anyway to recharge my FF, so buying new ones instead of automatic recharge just takes a little more time and money then it did before.
  2. Now that they DO cost money, that means that more people will have to get involved making money on a regular basis instead of just logging in, ganking wake or OP, and then logging.
  3. Since more money is needed by individuals, that means towing stuff around most likely. Unfortunately, with increased flux spawn, towing is more dangerous so you will likely require escort. In my opinion this is a good thing because it rejuvenates cargo hauling and escorting, i.e. it requires more cooperation among players.
  4. FF's are now at a premium, so encouraging production and stocking stations are necessary. This creates a bigger awareness among players of the importance of cargo hauling and managing production at stations. Of course more hauling will be necessary (in addition to profit making) to keep production going. Again, this builds more cooperation among the players.
In short, this simple change means greater cooperation amongst players, makes non-PvP activities much more important, and IMHO will actually make the game much more exciting to play. We have had an FF shortage before and we came through it. It might take some time, but we will get through this one as well. There may be some production issues that will have to be tweaked, but I don't think it will be a major issue. This is just my simple opinion, and please forgive anything I might have missed in the above statements. I haven't been playing that long, so this is just the way I see it with my limited experience.
Deathpig wrote:
Flashfires did, in fact, used to be one-shot use. The decision to make them permanent was up there in the Dumbest Decisions Forced By Whining Players yet. Consider this change 'putting things back the way they should be.'

Hell, if it had been my decision, I would have put all the low level booster and efficiency ModX (eb1, pb1, we1, etc.) in Amananth and made Flashfires an artifact (and maybe then refuelable).

At this point in the game, ANYTHING done to turn PvP into ANYTHING other than the whee-fun Thorn (all other weapons need not apply)/FF (all other ModX need not apply) stupidity it has been for the last year, the better.

Last edited by MajorFreak on Wed Mar 19, 2003 7:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicator wrote:
The nix has always been the best 1v1 fighter, even before the mass reduction and extra FF. I think he was talking more about group flying, which is a rather different proposition.

I love the new change to one use only FFs. If the FF production is increased as much as Hollis says it will be, there will be plenty of business for traders to distribute FFs...wooo, interaction!!. With huge production values and freighters, it will be easy to cart huge amounts of ffs to stations across the galaxy. It will vastly improve pvp tactics, quickdocking won't be totally uberised (imagine quickdockers having a station in every sector?). Pirates will have to think intelligently about where they pirate. I'd love to see ffs having a pol rating of about 30 ish - this would make pirates think seriously about keeping their pols at reasonable levels so that they could get more ffs upon docking.

Change is good. Increased interaction is good. Pilots depending on each other is good. New battle tactics is good. I give no rechargeable ffs a big thumbs up.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea. When FF's are scarce, Nix and it's 2xAB Fuel is King.
Jesus saves, the rest of you take 5d20 damage.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to see Ophistes beat me to it.

Did my "OMG you killed JG, you bastards!" moment and then twigged:
a) I rarely use em except for docking/flux evasion anyway
b) I'm a trader and this is the first item that actually creates a "need" for us (give us an escort mate and I'll give you 20 flashfires). At least until factories are introduced and the world and his wife have their own FF production line.

Has been interesting to see how little they are being used already, no more purple streaks into station to dock, ace.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[SPAM]Navy wrote:
** Flashfire shortage starting already! **
As predicted, Amnanth is not able to keep Flashfire production up to compensate for the rate of consumption.

Either set FF back to refuel, or increase the FF production at Aman, or give us the factory module to produce them at stations.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Factories could kill what is currently turning out to be quite an interesting situation with the economy. Given that it looks like certain equipment for the new ships wont be made on any faction station I guess they will have to be introduced at some stage, but I seriously hope that no existing equipment can be made with the factory module, either commodity or ship spare.

It is going to make life very hard for Noobs is all the kit goes PoS produced (not to mention trying to make a profit off the damn stuff, have to admit I think the PoS I've set up is going to take some major work to keep running let alone turn a profit). Currently a useful by product of trying to make most "sexy kit" is that you churn out a lot of stuff that is of great use to Noobs. You cant, for example, make a Sport+ without also making a Sport, Sport LP, Contender etc etc. If I can make a Sport+ on my PoS though (where it is located makes this an ideal item to produce) why do I need to lug all this stuff to Cornea/Wake to make em?

If I can make non Solrain kit, the problem is made even worse.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nellie wrote:
If I can make [foreign] kit, the problem is made even worse.

now, that is an excellent question.
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