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Muffy, ND needs your help!

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Test Pilot
Test Pilot

Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 566
Location: The sticks!

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 6:08 pm    Post subject: Muffy, ND needs your help! Reply with quote

Do you have an archive of the "What's wrong with JOSSH" thread that they had stickied oh, so many months now? The new Dev wants it if you can find it.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:( no damnit. that's the one thing i nearly cried over. BUT, we do have mightygame's version.

BTW, if he wants it, i'll replicate it. wasn't too hard to do actually...i'll drop everything i have and 'volunteer' some time to crossreference what MightyGames has already done and what needs to be done...was planning on bitching about it sometime.

First off, here's mightygames:
(becareful though, i'm not sure WTF is going on but i'm positive their data is a bit different than ours...which is wonked because i thought both server JOSSH systems were intermeshed, right?)

Secondly, here's what i've already done to add to this:

BTW, for pilot profile we need ND to cash in all those cross of the mentor...just look at Hurricane's bleeding profile fer christ's sakes. (all we need is for them to allow more than one instance of cross of the preceptor.

Okay, enough with that. next on the trip is the corporations. although trivial, i'd like to see some stupid shit cleared up.

There's not much that needs clearing up in the Biblio system as ND's JOSSH also services MG's system, does it not? (would have liked to update the timeline, but that's not an option is it? is it?)'s a mammoth job, really. he's best to post a new sticky now that he knows the old one's gone forever...Besides why doesn't he just link the whole damned thing over to my Database forum .harrrrrrrrrrrr
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alot of the flight academy stuff is worthy of bibio system status because it lacks instruction and prioritization for n00bs. only n00bs read this stuff and it's not great on explaining HOW to go about doing x and WHY it relates to the gameplay's y.

take for instance the map. There's no explanation about how mission destination waypoint relates to anykind of autoroute stuff, nor a disclaimer that even setting waypoints doesn't automatically bring up the custom waypoint when one jumps into a sector, nor the trivial remark that custom waypoints are removed once you jump into said sector. (not to mention the tricky subject of patrol mission requirements)

As for patrol mission stuff, that's even more asinine...i've already worked up that in the 'n00b primer' thread. Actually most things are explained in detail in the Free Database sections, though i really haven't gone into explicit stuff about how mission waypoints are completed/removed.

In short, JOSSH lacks fundamental instruction in favour of "biblio" mumbo much so it's hard to figure out what's important for a n00b to know RIGHT NOW. And that gets into the sticky subject of the very format used by JOSSH. It becomes not only a mere typo correction and addendum issue, but a more fundamental critique on what's the most important thing for a n00b to know.

That gets into even more difficulty when one talks about missile systems and the lack of effective n00b defense when armed only with a mining laser at low levels...combined with exhorbant missile costs for the stupidly low payoff of being attacked by flux.

This gets into flux spawning patterns and the need to eliminate all but c0 from spawning in sectors close to Core stations. even then the missile cost issue is still exhorbant.

The solution to that is off topic for JOSSH, but since jossh is targetted for n00bs, it's hard to NOT deal with such problematic tangents. What ND needs to do is rethink missile costs, stats and lvl requirements for the low level missiles...I know this is off topic, per se, but one cannot deal with jossh's shortcomings alone -- it's about n00bs.
  • The rockets are useless. eliminate them or create some kind of 'rocket pod' that reloads on dock (either or)
  • The calyso and other lvl5 missiles need to be lvl2 requirement and half the cost...they're so damned useless for anything otehr than taking about c1's (higher flux AI force a more oblique attack so it's hard to get head on hits with those...rolling helps)
  • The sirrus and other lvl8 missiles need to be lvl5 requirement and half the cost...they're not much better than the lower stuff -- plus one of these MUST be able to take a c1
  • The cutlass is a fine design with it's proxy fuse. Personally i think ALL solrain missiles have to have this. no other way around it, k? (as for nukes? not sure about the damage done to pilots...i wonder if it's equivalent to a Lance? dunno)
And if we deal with missile systems for n00bs, we've also got the idiotic mission payout for patrol and scouts compared to the efficiency of transport missions. Patrol mission credit bonus needs at least a x2 boost...even x4...scout missions experience bonus needs at least a x2 boost...even x4.

And then we get into mining mission gear for solrain and octavian noobs. my GOD! why isn't the crappy duster and excavator CHEAPER and lower lvl requirement? how many octavian n00bs have to fail mining missions on that simple fact alone? brokers cost 16500cr and aren't worth the investment for quantar n00bs. (w/o tax; range and rate of mining is almost equal to the cracker)
    compare that with the 40kcr+ a n00b has to shell out for a single damned duster! Talk about stupidity. combine that with the cargo slot of an ape and the lack of the quantar mining purity thingie and you've got some very sad customers
As for scout missions? why the hell doesn't ND switch the "level 1 ,2, 3" from increased distance/bonus to local targets with the same payout?

It all comes down to one simple point: Is jossh supposed to help those who use it, or not? If it's supposed to, other issues naturally start to intrude because it's a game and a game needs gameplay...and GAMEPLAY deals with whether or not a game's content meshes together to create an enjoyable experience. (depending on the MMOG nature to carry the game has been ND's mainstay forever)
    it's nice they're focusing on the jossh inaccuracies, and i'd love to help them, but fixing the typos with only focus everyone's attention on what's fact, by fixing jossh it will give ammo to the whiners about what's really wrong with JG's gameplay...but since all the whiners are only interested in themselves, they never really give a shit about n00bs, so it's not much of a problem just fixing typos i suppose. But, you see, that's been ND's problem. they think that if the whiners don't whine about it, it doesn't need fixing. (this is more infuriating to me than what priority ND places on things that do get whined about)
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Test Pilot
Test Pilot

Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 9:31 pm    Post subject: In reply to MajorFreak :) Reply with quote

1. The commodity that I know of that has a hidden dependency if RF Transcievers needing LaserComponents.

2. Obviously there is Aluminium production that is dependent on Composiites and RFTranscievers, but this dependency only manifests itself when decay is implemented.

3. All my production center info is old and out of date or simply lost. Id need to regerate it, and that involves looking at JGWT really, and looking for prices that dont make sense. Grain at corridor was one of the funny ones that I can remember.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2002 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Archon wrote:
There's nothing to come clean about :
(1) Production parameters were never changed, and
(2) I'm still waiting on confirmation from GM Josh as to what the *actual* (not new, just actual) production parameters are.

It seems like stations don't consume a magnetic to make a haven, instead they need to MAKE a magnetic (cobalt and iron) to make a haven. But I wouldn't bet money on that.

GM Archon
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ND general forum thread
some thread that got hijacked into JOSSH inaccuracy corrections.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spork wrote:
It would be great if some of the serious haulers could check the Database/Commods to make sure that's all correct. I simply don't know the production stations that well for the commods.

Here is what I have come up with so far...

Most pages in JOSSH have capitalization and punctuation errors in the text.

Database/Single Pilot Vessels:
-The Griffin is built at both OP and OC. There is a naval yard for each.
-The Vendette is at SC and Wake, with naval yards.
-The Squall is at QC and Corridor, with naval yards.
-"The Thunder will haul as much as any tow in the galaxy, but do so with a bit more speed." The Thunder has less thrust and less top speed making it both slower and more sluggish.

-The Duster is no longer a viable weapon even at close range. It also says it's the worst in class, but has a higher damage listed than the Excavator and the Broker.
-The Barrak is built at both Hyp and OP.
-The Serializer is no longer PSI's premier plasma weapon. The Nova is.
-The Nova text description says it has a slow refire. Incorrect.

-The nukes level requirement was thankfully increased from 0 to 20. They are produced at Wake, OP, and QC not Various.
-"Two Lances have been known to take down a fully padded Pioneer." Not been true for a long time.
-Stiletto text references a "now retired Hammer" missile which is ok, but confusing since the Hammer is a current gun.
-The Longsword boasts "Torpedoes are the most powerful weapons in the systems."

-All old ECM texts list %% (double %) reduction.

-Haven text has the same %% error.

-Antagonizer has %% error and is also built at QC.

-Creeper references to a "Tanglevine" could be changed to Ivy.
-Echo is built at a CP in Sol Core, not at all 3 stations.
-Sentinel is built at a CP in OC only.
-Ivy is built at a CP in QC only.

-All 3 BCU texts say it will hold a tune for 4 hours. Should be 2, IIRC.
-Bullseye has the %% problem.
-Flashfire has the %% problem. And it says +200% which IS accurate, though confusing since it means tripple, not double thrust.
-All POS modx are produced at every station, not just the Core stations. Though no one would mind if the game were brought to JOSSH specs on this.
-The Burglar is not listed here, only under the Flight Academy/Piracy.

Database/Stations - General Info:
-All Depots have this text: "TRI deemed it necessary to build storage depots to solve this problem" but we actually found these pre-collapse stations and repaired them through FMs. (Note this text is also under Stations - Current Inventories.)

-Refuel/Repair/Rearm text should mention that you have to control the beacon.

Database/Unique Titles:
-Particularly bad area for capitalization, throughout.

-Still lists the original bounty/exp info, not the Ep2 change or the recent update.

-T&P's best seller is the little used Rocky. Alpaa would be more accurate.
-Infinite Heavy Industries is listed as a laser maker, but they don't actually make anything. Thier best seller, the Liar, is made by T&P.
-Dorator's best seller, the Flatiron is really made by T&P. Dorator only makes the Cobra, Hammer, Barrak, Hawkeye, and SeaBear E.
-Aristo's best seller, the Lifeline is really made by T&P. Aristo only makes the Rush, Dream, Hitman, and Theif. Also, Aristo is called "Hyperial based" on the Dream description, but seems to have offices everywhere even though they make fairly little. It's category is "Energy" and text leads us to think it's a Capacitor maker.
-Annihilitech's best seller, the Landlord is really made by T&P. Annihilitech doesn't actualy make anything.
-Lexxor's best seller is the Cutlass. MS would be more accurate.
-Samsun's best seller, the Sport is really made by T&P. Samsun's only products are the VAPOR, Deepol and Hatchet.
-PSI mentions Infitite Heavy Laser in the text. Nova MkI or Insight would be a better best seller than Serializer.
-Amananth lists Muddy Boot as a best seller. Clearly the FlashFire or Instigator would be (quantity vs profit).
-OPL is listed under Missiles, but really makes almost everything (Diversified). OPL's best seller, the Rapier is really made by T&P. The Guzzler or Pint would be a better choice.
-Venurian Prospecting makes mention of a Venurian Belt. Is this related to the Great Venure Belt?
-Cromforge is listed under Energy, but really makes almost everything (Diversified). Cromforge's best seller, the Mantra is really made by T&P. The Haven, Purge, or Thorn would be a better choice.

-Biomass is listed as produced by various. Should be Amananth.

Flight Academy/TRI Regulations/Pilot- Owned Stations:
-Market space has been increased to 500.
-Refueling tank doesn't refill FlashFires as they are single use.
-"Selling to a POS Market is not permitted." There is no mention of the /dump command on this screen.
-The Upkeep chart is correct, but the example below is not. It should be 2.45m, not 10.45m.

Flight Academy/Spacecraft Blueprints:
-The Guest is still listed as a Light Fighter
-No new ships since the MF are listed.

Biblio System:
-Under "a communion" it says "Quantar scientists discovered the genetic breakthrough" while under the Historical Timeline, it says "Solrain and Quantar scientists discover the secret of Genetic Alterations"
-Under each of the 3 TRI faction's System Overview, it says something like "at the present, they have built 3 stations" which could be updated to 4. Also in that section, the sector count for most factions is incorrect due to Depots, Canis, and Mokks.

-"TRI does not officially acknowledge Amananth's sovereignty" I think this is incorrect.

-" spare body parts on various stations in Hyperial" Various Hyp stations? Plural?

BiblioSystem/Historical Timeline:
-Full of problems. Age of the Thrice Seven, age of the Aman20, and lack of 2nd GVB War among them. Consult Moll.
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