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Nazgul up to their old tricks

 
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BaadF00d
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Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke makes interesting claims abour Ira Dei corroborating OVs claims of past discrimination by the GMs:
http://forums.jossh.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11232
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2002 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke? handsolo? palmpilot? handspring? jackoften? radagast? etc etc etc? I don't trust their *OOC* handling of anything.
    just found an old copy of "who's who" (beta7;stresstest)
  • Rostam = Handsolo
  • Palmpilot = Mercy
  • Luke = Hampster

    EDIT: apparently, Nazgul has recently let it be known that Brownie was none other than Handsolo/Rostam/Gwaihir (who's currently -WerTeX- on EU) who we still believe could be classified as Luke's bumbuddy (who is most likely Kerberus. no. wait wait...apparently Jackoften just admitted to being Kerbie.) Neither of them are Radagast apparently. Radagast could be Palmpilot/Mercy...perhaps Tuborg/WD-40 too?? (wonder who Oldfenster is though. i think old's been old since forever)
    :quan4:
Kerberus wrote:
This is to clear up Muffy's identity Crisis. Luke is umm...Luke; Palmpilot was Mercy and Starvoid(EU). Handsolo was Rostam, Brownie, and Gwaihir (EU). MajorFreak is a Troll who forms his opinions on the basis of others, since his time in game represents about a hundredth of his time on these boards.

now i know there's a "Gwair-whoits"...it's all very stupid, ghey and basically flavour of the month pilot name chameleons...not to mention their pragmatism when it comes to how PvP coding can be exploited, therefore they should be. (the type that think all non-consentual pvp is griefing AND that only breaking those rules are you a non-consentual pvper)
    which dovetails "nicely" into the false logic that, ergo sum, not getting bounty != griefing...An attitude that has been pretty much the rule rather than the exception in NetDevil's "Vigilante" culture: A black&white view that exploits are features not just bugs (eat yer cake and have it too fallacy)...And one wonders why all the romantics in life are cynics too. heh


Baadf00d wrote:
The only backup I can provide for anything, is my experience in OEC during beta6 when HG tags were introduced and when unregulated space was introduced.

Originally, with just civ tags and regulated space, OEC was a nonconsentual PvP squad. Actual wars with other squads were fought over OECs beacon policy :- basically, if non oct civilians took oct beacons we would rip them, or warn them then rip them, or something. Whatever. Other squads would periodically oppose this, by putting in a big show of force while overtly taking oct beacons and tuning them to non oct colors.

Wars were fought, civs were ripped, and many OEC and UZI ended up carrying very large bounties and, from the comms, I dont think any of the OEC PvP pilots (99% of OEC) had any problem with attacking civ targets that were known enemies, and either getting bounties, or worsening their PRs.

Pilots ran missions to improve their PRs, when pilots with low PRs needed equipment we organized convoys that included pilots with high PRs with the relevent factions, went to the station, fought enemies and arbs out to collect bounties along the way, and re-equipped our people. I was flying - possibly a raven at the time, and the squad seemed happy.

Then HG tags were introduced. Now OEC was a nonconsentual PvP squad, so, it was decided that the squad as a whole would fly with HG tags - the expectation was that it would be "the same" as flying civ - other pilots would remain honorable and not attack OEC pilots - even our traders carrying heavy cargo between didtant foreign stations would go HG. We would do this as a matter of policy, and a matter of honor simply to give our opposing squads the ability to "declare" war on us, by attacking us, and we would in turn expect the same from our honorable opponents.

War would be declared in a nonconsentual fashion - by suprise attacks on enemy ships - but that would be it then - we would be at war, and neither squad would be so dishonerable as to *ever* turn HG tags off.

This almost worked.

How HG is used is a cultrual issue - it works the same way money works - if enough people belive that honerable pilots fly HG always - even while matter farming, and enough peopel belive that they are honerable pilots then civ tags could ahve become redundant except for protecting newbies who want to remain outside of the honerable nature of nonconsentual squad war.

Then Nazgul came.

I dont know if theyre entirely to blame - If they hadnt come, and the HG but nonconsentual culture had stuck, I suspect that it possibly wouldnt have survived retail with lots of newbies. Even retail though, the vets would have had a chance to level fast, and set the culture up, and the newbies might just have slotted in, beliving that *this* is the way the universe worked.

But, Nazgul were vets, good pilots, and they could see that money was nothing but valueless paper and they wernt having any of that. All HG nixes were their target, and the US server quickly learnt that here was a situation not covered by honor. They could NOT fly HG all the time, even when solo because there was a squad that would incessantly attack them if they did. Because NazGul did not belive that HG did not imply consent to be attacked.

So, Honor Guard, as a mechanism to enable non conentual war without extreme civ rip penalties and/or griefing, was broken.

Once NazGul had shown the server that look - this crap you call money is just paper, what on earth were you thinking when you gave it value and used it to trade - they had shown the server that Honor Guard squads were a pie in the sky dream - a construct that would never work, and squads were forced to fly civ when weak, and reserve HG for when they were strong.

So now HG means consentual combat, and Civ means griefing, and the possibility for nonconsentual war has been all but totally eliminated.

What the beta PvP vets wanted - those in OEC that I flew with - was not Honor "I consent to random attack" Guard tags, but Honor "We the squad consent to declrations of war but by hell if you declare war on us be prepared to finish it" Guard tags.

So, if HG tags - and unreg space - is the domain of consentual PvP - THEN somehow squads that want to "declare war" on their enemies should be able to do so using civ tags, but the moment they do so, the penalties designed to prevent griefing - automatically bump them HG, give them a bounty, and make them a target of every player in the game, AND throw on huge insurance penalties. Meaning that pilots in squads that one is effectivly & supposedly at war with - can remove themselves as valid combat targets and enjoy a relative degree of safety by simply donning civ tags, confident that if their enemies attack and rip them, the enemy that does so is going to be in a whole bunch of poo way way bigger than the inconvinience of trying to requip a 2nd time.


offtopic
Anatomy of a troll


Last edited by MajorFreak on Sun Mar 23, 2003 5:39 pm; edited 6 times in total
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2002 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MG forum thread about the US forum thread
incest is best!
:D
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ecco wrote:
After the disapearance of the well known Acidguru of TDP i would like to nominate Kerberus 'Kerbie' of squad Nazgul for the official title of Spindoctor.


Hmmm...i doubt Kerberus is Acidguru, since i'm pretty sure Acidguru isn't JackOften. Though i'm damned sure Acidguru joined up under an assumed identity with Nazgul after they reformed "recently."


Crossreference
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cut&Pasted from a poll Nazgul started during a hissyfit
talk about a conceptual leap of faith. sure love Nazgul's reference to "that other thread". Personally, this quote by them in the "other" thread show's their bias clear as day:
Kerberus/JackOften wrote:
The HG system is in place is correct. If we down a civ, we have to "accept the consequences" as you say. The only other option is to make civs "untouchable" which no one wants, right?


There's a huge gray area, but to Nazgul it seems black&white. which just kinda shows them up for being a dull Roleplayers...i hate roleplay most of the time because i'm usually pretty crappy at it, but at least i make allowances for those that do...At least i don't wear HG tags and call others cowards, calling it "roleplay" as Nazgul insult and attempt to humiliate everyone who doesn't make like ruleslawyers.


powergamers


you know whatl? Nazgul's the type of nerd who throws the rule book at their local Dungeon Master. You know what we called those types of freaks? "Rules Lawyers" (the most hated of D&Ders)
    of course, i'm suuuuure they were out partying with the guys at the strip joint instead. yeah right. lol
: the fact of the matter is that i'm amazed at the diverse playstyles that exploit the game system just like Nazgul does, all calling their OTT griefing as "roleplay" this includes CIVigilantes abusing the lack of "self-defense", HGankers like Nazgul abusing the Registry system, Pirates abusing the /give system, Carebears abusing us with talk of Blue servers and mobile wallets, etc etc.

*shrug* I. play. the. game....I. don't. let. the. game. play. me.
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wertex/Gwaihir wrote:
We don't let nerds in Nazgul. We're not selective about PvP skills, but we don't allow for nerdiness. Let's just say if you and Kerbie went to a club or bar, he'd be the only one going home with a girl.
We may be arseholes, we may have very little respect for certain people, we may sometimes speak before we think...but that's because we're an experiment gone wrong. Non nerds that play an MMORG.
Kerberus/Jackoften wrote:
following up on Wertex...

That's exactly why we play the way we play. We aren't here to make friends (we have, but it wasn't the reason we played initially). We don't look to JG to fill a social void in our lives. We come here because we enjoy the PvP aspect of the game, and the diplomacy of it all to some degree. When we make our agenda, we don't say "will this piss people off", we ask ourselves if this is something thats original (tough to do) and contraversal.

We aren't worried about hurting other peoples feelings really, because it's just a game. If Luke gets killed, it's not the end of his world. He's not gunna be pissed and take it out on his attractive, lucious wife that I wouldn't mind getting my hands on. It's a game. The minute he turns off his computer, he forgets about it all.

Maybe more of you should treat JG like a game, and less like a life.


notice how they sidestep "neatly" the issue of roleplay (and by implication, IC/OOC)
    look closer at one sentence in particular. The bit i coloured. look at the last word in that sentence and tell me how out of place it looks. (it's called tripping in your own bullshit)
    Mark Twain wrote:
    ..."If you tell the truth, you'll never have to remember anything."
    now, you may say he used that last word as nothing but emphasis, irony or just plain trolling - but, i say he meant it as part of his conclusion as though "not pissing people off" and "being controversial" had some disconnect. (like everyone else but their peers get pissed off, while they merely let off steam because they "know" that sticks and stones may breaks their bones but evil malicious pottymouthed hatemongering words can never hurt them)
They're legends in their own minds. Not to mention the way they go on about "RealLife" (yeah, right. i pity his "wife" if in fact "she" is real and not just a blowup dollie) in an effort to distract attention from my main point (roleplay &lack thereof) and focus on the smartass remark i made. (nice thing about letting one's humour get the better of yourself: makes others underestimate you, especially when they come up with that gem once in a blue moon.)
    knowledge is power. something these fools know not of though they're certainly doing a damned good job pretending to be drunk with it.
lol these guys don't even know the difference between RL/OOC/IC and they tell me to get a life?

:irony: personally, i don't know about you, but i find this kind of "my dick is bigger/i'm cool" attitude just as distasteful as some nerdy D&D ruleslawyer. (BTW, didn't i compare, not contrast these two attitudes in my last post?)
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