UMEC Forum Index UMEC
United Mining Exploration Commission: A group of friends playing JumpGate-- "a MMORPG that launched smoothly, breaks from fantasy character setting, emphasizes PvP, and is the first persistent world space simulator that nobody talks about." ~Scorch
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Reconstruction Initiative

Post new topic   Reply to topic    UMEC Forum Index -> Gameplay (ie. Content)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2002 2:51 pm    Post subject: The Reconstruction Initiative Reply with quote

TRI stands for The Reconstruction Initiative. It means faction missions to build depots and such. The current system is okay, if a little fast paced. I'm not saying it's broke or anything, when one considers merely the act of conducting a group effort to complete a FM. It's wonderful for community morale to complete any FM, no matter how significant the depot is in itself. It's the process that's always bred Faction pride and a sense of community.

Why do i think it's changed? Well, for one thing one has to consider FMs in the scheme of our entire experience playing JG. It's quite difficult to understand how this fast paced FM process relates to the rest of our experience of JG when one doesn't know what came before.
  1. Currently, a broker can grab commods used in the completion of someone's mission and reuse it -- I'm not sure if they patched it out yet or not (or even consider it)
  2. Also, it's a fact ND can code in the ratio of mission/percentage for a FM
  3. Finally, there's the current system of cargo mission template that allows up to 50 units per player to affect the FM percentage
During beta6's "Unver Era" FM's were 'handicapped' by the nonexistance of A & C with B being coded to help drag things out...A FM which today only takes a day or three might have taken a week or three to complete.

Now, how has this changed the face of the rest of our JG play? Well, for one thing point A being nonexistent meant a broker needed a constant supply of commods to satisfy the needs of the runners over a very long period of time. (very dedicated brokers then. one made one's rep on the persistence; they loved being broker too...though it burns one out after a while doing one thing over and over. *g*)

This long period of time allowed such things as blockades to happen and RP to ripen...CL was borne to give Octavia the lead in the FM race. (borne for Oct FM supremacy)
    I've a link to a warstory i once where is that? oh bugger can't find it. Well, anyways, any mention of Cruentus Legio just means a squad with "ties" to Octavia (ie. OEC / OMEGA) decided to blockade Solrain which was "winning" the FM "race" hands down -- that was the 1st CL war in brief. The 2nd was just them scuttling Quantars lead in the FM race...The end really came when beta6 ended. (not to mention xp hits and unreg space appeared right before then)

    There was another facet to the whole "FM supremacy war", and that was the defense of Great Pillars by OEC and allies letting only Octavians dock there over a span of a few months. (station stripping was considered dishonourable until such time as we got cargo scanners or PlayerOwnedStations)...Now, as EP2 arrives on the horizon we're going to see another face...This time Blockades will come back into community RP.
Unfortunately, FM Supremacy wars kinda took a backseat after ND decided to level the playing field right at the end of the 2nd CL war. (quite a morale hit when all that competitiveness turns into a joke to ND; "kiss and make up")
I guess ND figures that long drawn out FMs just breeds "FM supremacy wars" which saw a LOT of nasty threads pop up like Adara's recent one. (with it's IC and OOC comments, with a mix of truth, white/grey/black lies)

One might question the wisdom in nerfing "FM supremacy wars" by coding those points i listed above, on the basis that such stressful times were the best of times...noone got hurt in RL. On the other hand, ND saw alot of emails complaining of a little too much stress. Regardless of the merit of such complaints, they decided too much griefing was going on and coded XP hits (with unreg to appeal to the pirates)

The very tail end of beta6 was the dark ages of Dark Path. (not to mention the slowest period ever for pilot population) XP hits didn't really hurt alot since most people (including the devs) started to forget why the Registry was coded in the first place and those that did were quitting more than not...usually posting a rant about how their way was dying. (XP hits were merely yet one more bonus to a vigilante culture...funny how the polar opposite of that is "Honour Guard")
    really hard to explain in brief about the hypocrisy here. please see this post if you're interested in the nuts and bolts of the pvp rules
This was the "Nazgul Era" where the old guard saw the old "FM supremacy wars" (blockades and stuff) pass away to be replaced by a new breed of combat jockey...sure they were as hairtrigger and stressful as Beta6 (flame wars and OOC bitching has never subsided. just goes in waves)...but the difference was their was no cause to fight for anymore.

This hardly mattered much at all since everyone pretty much accepted the fact this was going to be a short lived experience at best (GBob was our community manager and 3DO was known to be the US publisher to be)
    incidently, Beta7 was release for EU server and MightyGames went through it's turbulent times with it's "OPs"
To be honest, on the RP side of things, nothing much changed other than Gbob leaving so soon and before we knew it the 3DO poGBS/Nazgul fiasco was upon us. Ick...But in all, nothing much really changed regarding TRI and our post-beta6 perspective on FMs. ("levelling the playing field" just smashed morale for starting RP around FMs)

And even if the old races became vogue again, ND coded in the 3 points i listed above, eliminating the Epic nature of the old beta6 FMs.

now, i think this won't really change our FM perspective much if at all. It'll bring back blockading and the old way of fighting (something with a cause)...unfortunately, ND pretty much has ruled out the possibility of "FM supremacy wars" from ever coming back.

So there you have it. One has to go back to Beta6 to see how closely FMs were tied to community roleplay (actually, back then official RP was nonexistent)...after all the time i spent i figure ND's vision became pretty clear to me. To them it's PvP and encouraging their concept of an elite jumpgate player, which revolves around "honourable" combat...These guys loathe anyone with a bounty, not to mention their insistence on making the steep learning curve frustrating so it's more rewarding to get to that elite plateau.

It's quite wierd to see the hypocrisy inherent...not by words (they hardly speak) but by deed. What they don't patch is as illustrating as what they do nerf/tweak. It shows, after watching it happen for years, that ND really has not only misunderstood pvp, n00bs and player RP but also reinforced that misperception as though a child digging in it's heels.
  1. They simply will not compromise one iota on areas such as bountyhunting (ie. kick em when they're down), ND's vision here has proven to be "we made HG for a reason: honorable duels. if you don't duel honorably, avenging vigilantes will kick you when yer down, you griefer." (forgetting issues like logistics, tactics, strategy, the Geneva Convention and basically everything Clausewitz wrote)
    Clausewitz wrote:
    War, followed to its natural conclusion, is total.
  2. levelling (ie. you can be anything in JG, except level doing things you like), ND thinks that we do missions cause they're rewarding in itself, not for the bonus...nevermind the fact it's more fun do play JG without ever touching the mission screen (unfortunately, one needs those niggling PR points)'s funny why ND doesn't see missions as what they are: hoops. a pretty skeletonal utilitarian process as that i might add. (ie. did that transport mission ever advance a factions agenda in some substoryarc?? pffft)
  3. shipping (ie. see that tow? it's hauling a profit on light commods. see that shuttle? yup. quite a switch, eh? not only can't it haul squat, it can't even make profit even if it could since you'd be pvp/fluxxing instead of hauling if you were a twink! And if you were hauling...) ND kinda misses the fact that preventing exploiting an increased cargo hold for n00bs outweighs common sense. (a twink gets given millions and ubergear by someone who'll simply give MORE anyways) Ever wonder why you can't refuse a "/give" command? ND doesn't
  4. Reaganomics (ie. see that cargo mission? it's not a station saying those darned pilots are buying too much of this gear go haul this base commod we make at our station to that station that needs it to make that popular gear -- it's not. how depressing. it's that simple) What does ND think? dunno, i just know their track record. it's pretty simple. if it's out of stock it's in demand. the funny thing is stations gobble more stuff than pilots ever could. it's called "churning"...which doesn't seem to bother ND at all, especially when mining is not only disconnected, but insignificant compared to "invisible mining"
What you get a picture of is a very specific combat jockey mentality that's pretty much alien to even the hardcore pvpers (even the honourable ones)'s quite funny if it wasn't so darned uncompromising. It's like they're stuck in simulator mode. know the really sad thing? ND's mentality attracts hairtrigger griefers and befuddled carebears way out of proportion to how things actually work in our community. hell, ANY mmog community...heck even RL community.

There are some moral absolutes here that ND just simply cannot see. There cannot be this "vigilante/HonourGuard" dichotomy, because it's simply cannot CODE a community. Unfortunately, assholes are a dime a dozen. Too bad the pvp rules of any mmog have been woefully inappropriate -- always aimed at punishing the unpunishable: the griefer.
It's bad law. You can't enforce it.

Perhaps it's not ND's fault, but a more diffuse perception problem for any dev team on a MMOG...A blind spot so to speak. I guess devs think they can wave a wand and griefers will poof away. Hardly, it's like fighting a hydra. (though, in my darkest moods i start to believe ND made this game to bait carebears in for griefing)
Ben Franklin, 1759 wrote:
"Those that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Back to top

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP-Toast wrote:
To second what me-777 said, old-style brokering should IMO be allowed to continue as normal. Commodity recycling is stupid and should be removed asap, but beta-qbld brokering where a few tow pilots would haul everything down to corridor or wherever and have newbies running backwards and forwards to boost the mission should be positively encouraged - it's one of the few areas where newbies can actually make a tangible difference (watching that percentage bar creep up), and it gives tow pilots a reason to take part (the 50 unit limit means a transport is more effective unless you can broker commods off). [/B]
I'll third that...I was thinking earlier today (yes, muffy thinks) about the whole n00b/FM/Broker symbiosis and came to a realization that the important thing is not that n00bs feel condescended towards when they realize their involvement is "inefficient", but that someone takes the time to involve them. It's the community effort that's more important than making things feel "realistic" by making n00bs feel properly insignificant.

*shrug* anyways, in the final analysis i'd rather talk about getting NetDevil coding in illegal commodities produced at unreg stations that trigger bounty when scanned and gives profit in excess of hauling MCs (just stupid amounts of spooge in that idea compared to wasting ND's time on something like brokering)
    BTW, i forgot about one more thing about Brokering in the old days. Before the new mission format for cargoes everyone was given a mandatory minimum haulage amount. (instead of per unit xp, it would be a lump some for hauling "at least")...Combined with manual cycling, mission commod disappearance at completion, and lesser max mission % caps made the old brokering system a necessity. Though, even now there isn't any pressing need to eliminate brokering entirely.
Only problem now with brokering is that damned "mission commod recycling"
Back to top

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2003 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

check out my new FM FAQ i've got a final draft of: (200k+)
    MG Creative forum thread...Someone should be getting a german translation for me so i can type in the deutsche text into the blank copy i have waiting.
BTW, i've been thinking more on what "The Reconstruction Initiative" means and i've thought up a zinger: See, we've been hired as freelance/privateer employees of a government research program to build and test prototype vehicles, gear and interstellar communication/transportation...We're mostly left to our own devices on how we proceed, even up to the choice of not participating in reconstruction missions designed to build the infrastructure to add new prototypes to test.

EDIT: looks like someone's asking these questions, or starting a bitchfest (dunno which), here
Back to top

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blasphemy wrote:
Things at Aman
I was just wondering , since there was a Line a Mile long at amanath lastnight...and just about everyone and his mother was sitting around exploiting the bug....Do the GM's plan on doing a rollback? Or actually leave all the bonuses gained by bug? The PR gain is no biggy...the exp is nothing...the money was a bit high, but hell everyone's got money out the kazoo in this game! What bothers me is I fell like we got jipped on the Faction Mission. Where was the Community joining together feeling? From what I hear all there happened to be was a bunch of pilots fighting over who gets to dock and bumping and crashing each other. On a similiar note...I think it's almost as bad when someone sits at the station for hours brokering off stuff that was asked for and buying back off the floor. Things like this just remind me Jumpgate is nothing more than a game to pass the ruins the roleplay! If Hyperial needs construction materials to build POS's and I bring 50...then you buy the 50 and resell it to someone would Hyp be any closer to it's goal? The idea is that the material should get USED! I really wish jossh would change it so that there is a set amount of commodities needed to finish the FM and that there is a storage set aside in the station to accept these commodities..(i.e. they do not go onto the market floor) Then once this set goal has been reached..the FM is completed. You can still broker, but broker by hauling 100 of 4 different commodity types to the station and selling those off..then when you are done, leave. Go to another station buy more commodites and return! Ok so you all what all the new stuff NOW and it's quicker your way. Woohoo so next month we have all the new stuff and a month later everyone is screaming for EP3! Make this stuff stretch...let them use it to keep us interested! Let us all fight to reach a common goal instead of pointing and clicking are way there! Isn't that what everyone loves about this game? The skill and effort it takes versus let's say Neocron or any of those other games you all make fun of because the lack of skill required.

Just my thoughts on trying to make the game last for me and hopefully for you others!
Back to top

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TotalNooB wrote:
Shouldn't the station have used up those commodities the moment the landed on the market?

and that, ladies and gentlemen, is the $64,000 question. (i forget the reasoning behind it...never used to be that way...ever since the commods are "recyclable" i've gotten a bit demoralized. still, like Nic said...)
Originally posted by Nicator
On principle I'm against brokering for FMs, but it's hard to ignore the fact that it's one of only a very few newb friendly activities.
    anyways, it's immaterial. I remember when i was a n00b (still am) wondering why i was doing nickel and dime FM at low speed when those big tows could do the mission faster and more efficiently...i ended up not really caring. here i was flying along side other n00bs and vets on a bigass mission over a silly building noone cared about BUT the process. It's fun, the mission-oriented public chat (qbld) really had that "working in space with others" feel to it that i wanted so much to have in privateer1.
Originally posted by GMGhost
As for brokering for FM's, this is something I'm kinda against as a personal preference. I just find more personal achievement in actually going across space yourself and hauling the items you need for it as opposed to waiting in a station for a broker to sell you it as quickly as possible. Feels like I'm cheating myself a bit...Just my 2 euros, but I feel as though I've actually done something doing it the long and "correct" way

*shrug* i know the "realism" tack alot of naysayers always had (a bit like GMghost's point of view), but really, if one takes that context to it's logical conclusion, what is the point of jumpgate? (i'm not being cynical here, just pointing out the logical conclusion to GMghost's p.o.v.)

Originally posted by GMHollis
Well, I'm very much of the original system NetDevil had implemented for FMs, together with FM brokering. (I guess that echoes Muffy (don't flame me when it doesn't :)).). "Original system" means:

  • Commodities vanished right after sale.
  • The system that 50 units max counted toward the FM progress, no matter if you had a big tow and sold 500-525 units.

While completely not realistic, it proved to be very, very efficient for me to get into the community, to learn people, to learn about squads, about politics, to work together.

A realistic system would probably just count up the number of delivered commodities (you need 25,000 ConMats, 15,000 Iridium, 1000 Electronics, 20,000 Machined Parts), and when all that has been delivered to target station (where it gets eaten immediately, of course), the FM would be done.

This would automatically that anyone not in a tow or freighter would be worthless (fighters as escorts maybe). The newbies in their 1-6 cargo ships could do nothing whatsoever in order to really help the FM, they would not be needed, nobody would take the effort to bring them in and to teach them, they'd wander off to do whatever.

Now, with the "max 50 units count", while not unrealistic, even a Gust with 1 cargo space (26 floorspace) counts more than 50% compared to a tow/freighter pilot. These newbies are important as runners and thus, they get into the loop. This is how it happened with me (US beta), the first FM I did really brought me to the game (while I was just flying around before).

Remains the commodities not vanishing now, which sucks. In future FMs, like we did in the past (not so much with the EP2 FMs after the unfortunate market reset where commodities were scarce already), we will make use of very high negative PIs to have the FM commodities eaten again at least in some way.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    UMEC Forum Index -> Gameplay (ie. Content) All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson.
Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group