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Mining 101 (the five basic ore types)

 
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2001 5:43 pm    Post subject: Mining 101 (the five basic ore types) Reply with quote

JOSSH recruiting poster (US server) (EU server)
    Ingame screenshot of a premia mining a roid (It's one of the pure roids [ie. commodity]; Go here for tips on mining that type)
    BTW, go here for Advanced mining tips (circlestrafe mining, rotacol stuff & roidmasking PLUS cooperative mining)
MINING 101
Old ND archived thread on mining & another on medals
PlanetNetDevil has just put up a very nice, though highly spindoctored guide to mining. (see that here; my critique of that guide is here)

Where are roids?: There are moderate concentrations of EVERY roid type in EVERY sector. (including station sectors; exceptions are the neutral station sectors)

Most newbies understand that nearer the pulsar sector you get the easier it is to find the rare roids - BUT, that doesn't mean that sectors closer to stations aren't barren of rare roids...As i once assumed. And i'm sure everyone else thought some sectors were barren.

Looking for roids: The one tool not mentioned so far that's perfect for exploration is the HallMonitor solrain radar. This puppy has a 10k range setting that's just perfect for figuring out which roids are within ZOOM range. (zoom range being 10k)

Roid recognition: The hardest trick is learning to tell the asteroids apart. When i was a newbie, i routinely mistook Precious metal for Ice and visa-versa. I also mistook Semifluxor with precious as well...Of course, radioactive roids were the easiest to drool...erm...spot. The best advice i can give for ID'ing ice, precious & fluxor is to think of "Brightness". (ice roids can be spotted from 10k distance without using Zoom; precious are less bright, and semifluxor are scarily dark)

    Radioactive

    Semifluxor

    Precious

    Ice

    Common


    Anything else is considered a "pure" (commod) roid.

    *note that these aren't covered in this thread*
approaching a roid: k...I tend to approach roids in a spiral, getting ever closer, but not ever pointing directly at the roid in question...I've died way too much overcompensating on a direct run...But, if yer daring, i find with the starter shield you can ram into a roid going 20 velocity and you'll be okay at 35% shields.
You cannot target roids in the radar, the maximum range you can see them is 10,000 distance, but at least these types are permanently fixed in place. Though not really important, except maybe for more advanced mining, is the mining laser ranges. (i deal with this in the advanced mining thread)
Docking 101:uhhhhh...pretty sure pitch/yaw/roll is NOT affected by hauling cargo. Also point out that the best turning rate is left/right (Yaw); Hauling 2 units of common ore has mass equal to your Storm class ship. The importance of coming to a FULL stop cannot be emphasized enough (coming from me, who routinely thought that hotdogging it into the docking rings was considered "Cool" and would win me respect from my peers, i hope you learn that discretion is considered the better part of valour by all pilots when docking)
    The storm with money engines slows a 2 unit haul reasonably quickly...As for optimal approach vectors? Well, assuming you have a rotacol, the best routes for docking are:
    QuantarCore 6000m distance
    SolrainCore 6000m distance
    (docking is a no brainer once you approach from that position)
Also. Do remember that your average haul will have a mass almost equal to your Storm class vessel. (all ore types, except ice have the same mass - heavy)

Upgrading your ship: http://razorskiss.net/archives/UMEC/PIC/JG/ships-nov2001/QuantMiner.jpg <--------- recommended layout of semi-newbie ship.
Solrain gear (lowlvlrequirement)...low priced..all within 5000-10000 range (Radar being most expensive)

Mining is dangerous, so i wouldn't recommend upgrading your cracker laser. it's rate of extraction is .006 units/sec compared to .008 units/sec for the Broker; The cracker is FREE and is still double the duster/excavator rates...And, if yer new at mining, DO NOT accept gifts of Banker lasers (the agony of losing such a treasure isn't worth the quadruple increase in mining speed)

Advanced Navigation: When using the /rotacol command once you've equipped the actual Modx item, keep in mind that you will not see the waypoint switch automatically to your set coord (you'll have to cycle the target list...the one custom waypoint you can set is right before jg wp's)

MOST IMPORTANT: Your storm class mining vessel turns best using Yaw (left/right; pitching up/down is NOT recommended)

Even more important (concerns not only mining): Do not, i repeat DO NOT, map your movement or combat keys to any keys you might use while chatting...more than once i accidently accelerated while chatting as i mined. boo hoo

Classified UMEC roid forum













(UMEC's version of JOSSH recruiting posters)


Last edited by MajorFreak on Sun Jul 06, 2003 5:19 pm; edited 30 times in total
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Korath
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2001 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the roid tips MF. With all the neat little things you seems to post just wanna post a thanks for it. ;D
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asteroid Position Data Center Opened (repaired for PJG purge and host switch)
  • I'd just like to inform who ever's out there exploring that each sector (including station sectors; excluding neutral station sectors) have at least 1 dozen rare roids. At least one of each type of rare:
  • there are 3 different size variations on each of the roid types (small~5units; medium~11units; large~22units)
  • Rare roids tend not to be clustered with other common roids, but there are exceptions to this rule.
  • Pure roids (the one's holding a single type of commodity) are all located within 10k of the main jumpgate in the sector. (one per sector)
  • Roids do not disappear when drained (they just slowly turn bright blue or a darker shade of darkblue)
  • Roid locations are the same for the US server as they are for the EU server.
  • Roids refresh 2units per hour *(might have changed)*
  • BTW, "active mining" means you orbit a roid at ~15v (giving you an approximate x2 mining rate)
FYI, quantar levelling tips are located here


Last edited by MajorFreak on Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:11 pm; edited 3 times in total
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2002 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

  1. Radiactive Ore (c6000-6400**)
    uranium, cesium, plutonium and radium.

  2. SemiFluxor Ore (c5000-5400**)
    erbium, gallium, indium, silicon, and germanium.

  3. Precious Ore (c3500-c3800**)
    gold, platinum, silver, and palladium.

  4. Ice Ore (c1600-2000**)
    cobalt, boron, lithium and water.

  5. Common Ore (c1000-1200**)
    chromium, magnesium, copper, aluminum, zinc, titanium, and iron.
    **usually goes for (the stated cr amt) per unit depending on what faction station you're at (Quantar stations usually pay the least); Also note that each asteroid type has it's own composition of all 5 types (radore;semiore;precore;iceore;common):
  • rad roid (49%;9%;5%;1%;36%)
  • semi roid (1%;63%;3%;1%;32%)
  • prec roid (2%;2%;43%;1%;52%)
  • ice roid (1%;1%;1%;96%;1%)
  • common roid (1%;1%;3%;2%;93%)

Code:
==================
Radioactive
Plutonium       ~1%**
(there's a bug; it's giving platinum instead)
Uranium          8.7% (8.5% qweebo test)
Radium           1.9% (2.4% qweebo test)
Cesium           4.2% (4.7% qweebo test)
==================
Semifluxor
Indium           1.9%
Silicon         21.3%
Erbium           1.9%
Gallium          5.3%
Germanium       16%
=================
Precious Metals
Gold             3.1%
Silver           7.5%
Palladium        5.3%
Platinum        ~1%**
(precious; radioactive gives this too. bug)
=================
Ice 
Boron            3.5%
Cobalt           2.4%
Lithium          6%
Water           70%
===============
Common Metals
Chromium         1.0%
Aluminum         7.3% (7.5% my test)
Copper           2.1%
Zinc             2.1% (2.7% my test)
Titanium         3.2%
Iron            18.9% (unsure. 19.8% my test)
Magnesium        3.3% (3.2% my test)
QUANTAR STATION PROFITS FOR ONE UNIT OF AMALGAMATED ORE
usual price for ore
rad=6075;semi=5050;prec=3575;ice=1900;common=1100

1.000 unit total aggregate profit from:
rad roid = c4025
semi roid = c3721
prec roid = c2351
ice roid = c1927
common roid = c1255
    So basically, if you're after money and not XP, i'd suggest searching for pure roids that hold commods instead of mining rares

    BTW, DuoDecimal discovered that ore prices are proportional to the commodity sale price of each refined component of said ore. (bit esoteric so i'll skip it, but it's here if you wish to read it)
Epsilon_5 wrote:
Common
------
Chromium 1.1%
Magnesium 3.3%
Copper 2.2%
Aluminum 7.7%
Zinc 2.2%
Titanium 3.3%
Iron 19.8%

Radioactive
-----------
Uranium 8.8%
Cesium 4.4%
Platinum 1.1%
Radium 2.2%

Semifluxor
----------
Erbium 2.2%
Gallium 5.5%
Indium 2.2%
Silicon 22.0%
Germanium 16.5%

Precious
--------
Gold 3.3%
Platinum 1.1%
Silver 7.7%
Palladium 5.5%

Ice
---
Water 66.0%
Cobalt 2.2%
Boron 3.3%
Lithium 5.5%


Last edited by MajorFreak on Mon Feb 24, 2003 4:22 pm; edited 18 times in total
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2002 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Originally posted by LyteFoot
The fact is that people who move equipment have always been important but invisible. Now the pilots who mine, move commodities, and move equipment are not only visible but extremely vital. I'm having a hard time seeing the big downside. I would love for the ratio's to be higher for mined ore but how without actually producing more commodities than the ore you actually mine?
Aye. Switch the arbitrary commod infusions (most of them) to a system that sets infusions by a tally of daily mining habits per station.

Unfortunately, that "would" eliminate most of the uniqueness of station/faction production exclusivity.

until you realize that there are lots of BASE commods that "aren't" made by mining ore.
  1. Antimony,
  2. Barium,
  3. Carbon,
  4. Chemicals,
  5. Grain,
  6. Helium,
  7. Iridium,
  8. Lumber,
  9. Molybdenum,
  10. Nitrogen,
  11. OrganicFoods
  12. Phosphorous,
  13. Textiles
  14. Vanadium
    and
  15. Xenon
UMEC Classified: other commod ingredients (simplified)

All 15 are "obviously" produced via hydroponics vats, chem labs and things of that nature. (orbital delivery would be ludicrously expensive relative to orbital factories...Gravity Wells are money sinks. (not to mention highly susceptible to politics and warfare. VERY strategic target orbital delivery is.)
    Though i'll bet politics is the reason that planetary resources contribute to the TRI effort. (relatively speaking, TRI's pilot population is .01% of the "official" 9 planets total)
For an *IC* look at possiblities over how all 1st tier commods get "produced" at station markets please see the FanFiction by Heretic: Sex, TRI lies and videotape (and for an *OOC* wishlist to replicate this fiction, go here)



ADDENDUM: There's another consideration that's key to this: NetDevil control versus Player interaction must be balanced...Otherwise it would prevent ND from actually using the economy in a roleplaying sense (shortages, boosts, etc)

FYI, not having "invisible" infusions would detract from alot of folks fun...One asks oneself if living an actual realistic pioneer's life would be easy?

BTW, I don't see "fine art" (and other gravity well cultural luxury articles) in the market place, do you? (i'm happy to assume it's an invisible part of interstellar commerce...except contraband...droool! illicit goods traffic! w00t!)


Last edited by MajorFreak on Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:31 am; edited 3 times in total
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh crap. well, i've repaired all the links and stuff...unfortunately, i've lost the rotating graphics for the asteroids care of PJG.

MadCat? wanna pull a few strings and see if he'll be kind enough to rummage through memories for these?
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doh. while doing maintenance on links, i discovered the team ekoo and pjg article for myrotacol were incorrect. fixed now.
;)
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2002 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found this while rummaging through old betatest forum thrads. (i added/editedin the (roid type) bits.
Lothar wrote:
Unfortunately the commodities produced from mined ore will in no way be able to sustain even minimal levels at a station...the yields are just too small and demand too high. Even if large scale continuous mining operations were carried out, the overall effect on stock levels and production would be insignificant compared to normal commodity trading. At best it can function as a very small supplement to the economy, but that's about it. This may improve slightly with a greatly expanded player base, but the associated increase in consumption would probably erode any real gains.
At one point in beta 6, I staged a mining event to test commodity production from mined ore...the yields may have been tweaked slightly since then, but this should give you a rough idea of what returns you can expect.

2188 units of ore mined in total, consisting of:
998..Common Metals
340..Ice
226..Precious Metals
263..Radioactive
361..Semifluxor

Commodities produced from ore:
73....Aluminum (common)
12....Boron (ice)
11....Cesium (radio)
10....Chromium (common)
8......Cobalt (ice)
21....Copper (common)
7......Erbium (semiflux)
19....Gallium (semiflux)
58....Germanium (semiflux)
7......Gold (precious)
7......Indium (semiflux)
189..Iron (common)
20....Lithium (ice)
33....Magnesium (common)
12....Palladium (precious)
5......Platinum (precious; radioactive gives this too. bug)
0......Plutonium (there's a bug; it's giving platinum instead)
5......Radium (radio)
77....Silicon (semiflux)
17....Silver (precious)
32....Titanium (common)
23....Uranium (radio)
239..Water (ice)
21....Zinc (common)

This test was carried out at one of the relic stations, so there was no consumption of the commodities as they were produced. There may be some slight inaccuracies in the figures, but it gives a general indication of the relative commodity yield from each ore type (ie. 12-14 units of Common ore produces 1 unit of Aluminum).

As you can see, even with under 300 players online, the commodities produced from 2000+ units of ore would be consumed by a single station in less than an hour (more likely <30 mins). If all pilots are low level, mining may help the economy slightly...but realistically, Transports and Tows hauling large quantities of commodities are essential to sustain production in any useful form.

Under the "old" economy (prior to completely automated production cycles), with a server population averaging 100, a relatively busy station required approximately 1500+ units of commodities delivered per day to maintain stock levels. With the current economy's higher rate of production and increased server population, I would estimate that at least 4-5 times this amount would be required...which is definitely into the realm of Tows and Transports.

While I do believe that the commodity yield from ore could be boosted slightly, both to increase its importance to the economy and help balance it more with cargo hauling...we still have not yet had a large enough online population to really see the true effects of large scale mining. Regardless, mining alone will never realistically be able to sustain the economy.

Lothar.

Have completed work and ore refinement percentages have been confirmed and edited into this thread a few posts up.
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP-Toast wrote:
I can't see any exploit problems with suggesting ND code it so that one retains ore if the ship reconnects in space; Currently ore is lost the second you disconnect. I'm lobbying to get this fixed atm

As Toast implies, there should be a feature that if you reconnect within 6 minutes after a "Disco" (disconnected from server) you will still have your ore aboard you just mined after launching. (currently you lose any ore that was mined between the time you launched and the disco)
    so always dock alot when going for your mining medals
Timski wrote:
As far as I am aware, JG automatically sets the throttle to 50% when the client loads (maybe only with certain sticks) if you manage to reconnect within 6 minutes. This is applied until you move the stick or the throttle. The trick with reconnecting in space is to be moving the stick from side to side as you reconnect. That prevents the throttle setting from kicking in. You have to get the timing just right, or as Nellie points out, it can so easily end in tears


Last edited by MajorFreak on Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:52 am; edited 3 times in total
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Nicator
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muffy, stop trying to corrupt people into mining :rock:

Kids, don't listen to him. He's a bad man who wants octs to mine out of some strange perversion. Horrible, horrible man.
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cnut
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timski
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record, the JG client sets my throttle to 50% on first connection to the space server. Obviously if I don't managed to reconnect in space, my throttle will be set on launch from the station, which is less of an issue... Did I just go completely off topic, or what tired ?
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh bloody hell, now where did i hide the gun ranges?
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LightBulb
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

use nic, he's a good target drone
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2003 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gohlem wrote:
Fine if ore gets pulled have them pull arties and pure roids...both you keep on a disco.

I'll need a confirm on that one. anyone? If not, i'll put it on my UBAR "to do list"
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow
that is a great informative post :)
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timski
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The values attributed to Epsilon_5 (originally tested by me) are Quant figures. Quants should get 10% more out of their refining processes: Indeed looking at the figures alone suggests this - they are all 10% higher than any rational person would have devised. As far as I am aware, they are applicable to POS refining (edit - erm ok, maybe not - don't you love last minute changes?).

DuoDecimal's theory is correct btw, although the Quant sale bonus warps the figures slightly (it is easier to look at yield to price figures for non-Quants). There was a rumour that the Platinum/Plutonium "bug" might have been fixed, but don't hold your breath.

Since someone mentionned it last night: You'll probably find roid yields have increased, by 4-5 units on each roid size.

I'm fairly sure the pure popping bonus has changed.

Historically the disco code retained pures and arties you had collected since the last dock, but ditched mined ores. I've lost track of what the current situation is with that.

That vague enough for you? :D


Last edited by timski on Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EP2 RELEASE (EP2 FAQ)






ORE RE-COMPOSITION
GM_Virgil wrote:
Please note that most pre-EP2 ore data is now inaccurate - almost all tier 1 commodities can be mined now, all asteroids hold greater amounts of ore, and commodity refinement is more efficient than it was before EP2. Basically, you get more ore from asteroids, and that ore produces more numerous commodities in greater quantity.

Mining is not only beneficial to the economy right now, it is required for production. If there are no miners, then there will eventually be no equipment left.

I'm going to try to get more information on the new ore composition, but it's lower priority than fixing some of the EP2 problems at the moment.

insane HELP :headbang: 8P :E

here we go: http://forums.jossh.com/showthread.php?&threadid=14594
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