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The 'I told you so' post (ep2 release economy)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 4:40 pm    Post subject: The 'I told you so' post (ep2 release economy) Reply with quote

Lytefoot wrote:
Wait where is this desire I kept hearing on the test server to make hauling more necessary? All I see needed is miners, there is simply no reason to haul today. You can't get enough of all the commodities need for any useful item to make it worth pulling out a tow. The only loads left anymore are strictly best profit runs, good job making tows truely useful.

I guess we weren't as important as once claimed.

You really think you are producing enough? The equipment that is out there today is due to the work of a lot of tows over several days right after the patch was applied. Those commodities were all gone in a matter of 5 days and the player base isn't replacing 1/100th of that on any given day.

This is a BS economy that offers nothing to most alternate play styles. Well I'm done worrying about it, I tried but the cadre who wants an extremely poor server has won. This is even worse than the EU had it. They had commodities and equipment, you just had to organize to move things around when needed. There it used to take planning and teamwork. Here and now all it is, is work for indentured wages.

Now, disregarding the fact that lytefoot is hopeless at giving decent suggestions but is unrivalled in the art of bitching, i'd like to say i agree with this sentiment. (though i'm sure what needs to be done would be where lyte usually takes a dive off the deep end)
    There's a definite mindset to "some" of the wanker armchair miners/haulers that convinces them that slashing injection/infusion PI of tier1 commods (aka. production cycles giving base commods with no visible cause) and replacing that with slightly tweaked ore refinement ratios will herald an era of unparalleled enlightnment. a veritable renaissance.
I thought Duodecimal's idea was cute and tried to pay it as little attention as i could until the fucker practically berated me for not critiquing his awesome idea. (tm)...i went in there, and said the same thing i told him in PM: He has no idea about the scale. (ie. opinion)

He poo-poo'd that idea and dismissed my concerns (as though he'd bested my argument with a better argument; wtf it was a goddamned opinion i made and he pissed on it from the word "go") and went on to crow about how i really wasn't seeing the big picture, and of course i lost it, and of course people formed a gankfleet to hunt down muffy the meanie troll.

Alot of people thought the idea to make miners front and center by chopping the legs off the only thing supporting JG's juryrigged economy is the same fucking mentality i get with PvPers who think fun=excitement=fear (and lots of it; n00bs learn fast! we did! weee)
    WTF What. The. Fuck.
anyways, i told you so. I also gave a suggestion long before Duo's magnificent snakeoil product that was basically ignored so i'm pretty much justified in laughing my ass off at NetDevil for being fuckups, and the TP roster in general for being fanboi/wynars. (ie. the reason i never applied)

As for my suggestion? well, i had the stupid idea of posting stuff from the "too much info dept." which led total fucking trolls to yell at me about the details of mining for fuck's sake like i was goddamned lying or something.
    WTF What. The. Fuck.
Yeah, that was it. that was the entirety of the feedback i ever got about making injections/infusion "PI" directly rated (though disproportionate) to ore refinement rates per day was that muffy hasn't a clue about roids at all. Well, thanks a whole hell of a lot.

FFS (oops, stand back, muffy just goes off here...)
Join the TP roster to allow them to flame me, marginalize me and basically laff at my meanie troll act? Not to mention patronize me like i didn't know a roid from a gloryhole. Well, of course they knew from personal experience about gloryholes so why the hell would they need my personal experience about roids? Apparently most fagg0ts figure they're the same thing.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2003 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

short version: i told them slashing injection/infusion of 1st tier commods would NOT herald a mining renaissance. They poo-pooed my opinion that it's an issue of scale. Now i get to laff as they eat poo-poo

GMHollis (formatting muffy's) wrote:
All in all, the situation is a confirmation on what many (not just you, Muffy :P) people have indeed said all the time

I'm sorry, could you repeat that? try it in the context of what the hell i was saying, k? Try it in the context of where the hell were you when this occurred? nah...i'm sorry, but using NDA excuse won't cut it. would you explain to the class where i can find the "many" folks who were vocal "all the time"

no, actually you can't. I can certainly find you ENDLESS diatribes by total fools that miners can produce the needs of our society (with a little tweak here and there)
    i'm sorry, would you point out how totally STUPID you don't sound?
and i'm bloody certain it wasn't just me you git. where the hell did i say i was the lone dissenter? nowhere! (i can count the folks who said that the scale of things is underestimated on one hand)
    and i lost count of the "it's okay, it'll work with a little tweaking. the scale of the tweaking needed is massively overestimated by our detractor(s)"

proof? here: compare pure roid mining and normal mining and tell me what a joke the latter is in aiding the economy. (personally, if i get my hands on the HM and lasers till be off to the pure spawns i go to help the economy)
    seriously, the scale has been massively underestimated by most people all the time, because those folk really don't give a rat's ass about experience/understanding of mining.
Gimli wrote:
Soon, master Elf, you will enjoy the fabled hospitality of the dwarves. Roaring fires, malt beer, red meat off the bone! This, my friend, is the home of my cousin Balin, and they call it a mine. A mine!

you're right i can imply i was a dissenter. I'm sure me posting that at all is proof i was implying 'i told you so'...To tell you the truth, i'm quite floored most folk haven't a clue of my ingame character. I'm a Quantar, i'm also a miner, i also happen to be quite trusted when it comes to rotacols for the entire quantar faction. Yer damn right i can post about issues relating to mining with what appears to be a voice of authority.
hi ho hi ho it's off to work we go, with hand grenades and razor blades, hi ho hi ho

i'm so sorry you can't even acknowledge the fact i was one of the very few dissenters to this greek tragedy called EP2 economy
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2003 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ND general forum thread
see?! see wtf i have to deal with? ahahaha OMG GG UTOPIANS! welcome to hell.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlkPrince wrote:
It's a proven fact, to counter act whining ND and the GMs will take the path of least resistance over the one that requires foresight, planning, and work.

it was so much easier to hit the "on" button than to up the percentages from mining and the money increase.
Hurricane wrote:
You know, I have to say that STfan posted exactly what -=MACK=- has been doing. I spent the last two days using our stockpile of tier 1 commods (which took a week to collect from all the miners and POS stations around) making Knockers, were 800 now 1600 and starting production of sport plus pp's. There were choices to be made as to where to use the commods, and what needed to be produced. RF Trancieces were needed, MC's were needed electronics, all the stuff that HAS to be made. Now I get to my computer this morning and see that all that work and planning is gonna be obsolete in another week as we will have a flood of commods and equipment with the station tier 1 production turned back on.

I wanted to get some Thorns made, required gallium for laser comps (galaxy inventory = 0 ) and Optics. The reasearch part and planning was what makes things more interesting. Do I use gallium to make laser comps or short cut it and buy some from the nano-producer in oct space. Now gallium is being produced and hence laser comps as well. It won't be long at all until there is thousands of thorns sitting in quant space just waiting to be moved, rather than none.

Player owned stations will be practially useless once all the grav units, Matter converters are back and making money is simple again. People will start stocking faction stations and POS will become arty storefronts. There will be no need to think, or plan anything other than do I want 250 thorns or 250 havens moved to sol space today.

Turning the commod production at stations back on in the volume I have been watching today will drive half my squad back into retierment. PvP players will again have to only consider if they want to fight tonight or not, and equipment will be no worry. I'm betting the game will stagnate within a couple of weeks, and we will see the peek time player base be 100 instead of the awsume numbers we have been seeing since the release of EP2.

If it's to hard, then up the ore to commod ratio. I hope this "on" for production is only temporary as I really don't want to watch all my friends leave the game yet again

figures. no clue. none whatsoever. talk about the epitome of Nerf. (all i hope is that they don't get some damned mining phobia at ND HQ)
    it's like black&white for them, but i suppose it's really just time constraints...except they have not a clue about what's a priority to the community. THAT'S what scares alot of us. They take fanboi/wynar's word for it too much of the time for waaaaay too long.
Ilk wrote:
As I've said many times before since the EP2 patch, there has to be a sense of balance. A drought economy is GREAT for Haulers and Miners, and SUCKS for PvPers and to an extent fluxers (who now face *much* higher risks attempting to be at the top of their profession).

A glut Economy ROCKS for PvPers and again, to an extent fluxers (excepting that fluxers are more likely to also be involved in non-pvp activities than pure PvPers) and SUCKS for haulers and miners because they feel useless.

Since the patch it has sucked to be a PvPer. Yes, a lot of people are about to say "No, I PvP and I love working for my gear". The key point is that you *love* what many other people consider *work*.

Copper production being on will make it suck to be a miner again. Hopefully, the Devs are working on a more permanent solution by reworking Ore yields, heating times and production efficiency. If they aren't, then this situation will continue until there is a Glut economy again and the PvPers say "Yay! But wait, who is going to haul my gear?"

What I want is the ability to earn money by taking a not-too-high portion out of my playing time. Mining pures and a little hauling should be fine for this.
I then want to use that money to hire hauler and equipment producers (hopefully based on miners) to stock my POS for my squad so that we can PvP. I can't do that yet because THERE IS STILL NO FRIGGING SELL/DUMP FOR POSES. Until there is, being a PvPer is still going to suck.

ND needs to balance the equation out, SOON. However, expect this seesaw whining to continue as they mess around.

The problem, as stated by me before is that "tweaking slightly" ore refinement, commod ingredients and mining drain/heating/cooling/capacity stats is that even an across the board reworking will not work without making at least one of these figures ludicrously high. (we must have injection, but we must have some control over it)
    i wonder if anyone agrees with me on this? i doubt anyone does on the huge SCALE involved.
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