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United Mining Exploration Commission: A group of friends playing JumpGate-- "a MMORPG that launched smoothly, breaks from fantasy character setting, emphasizes PvP, and is the first persistent world space simulator that nobody talks about." ~Scorch
 
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Massivly Multiplayer Persistent Space Games.
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Zero0
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

... ... ... ...oh sorry i was drawn in by 8Ball's avatar :eyespin:
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X! Holy carp, batman! Eye candy very nice (totally blows JG away). But it is single-player.

XOL!!! If this is as good as the offline version, JG may have EU people leave in droves! I have a feeling this is similar to what JG is meant to evolve into.

PC Zone reviews X.



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HiTekHick
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JG or something new? After reading that FAQ, I'm wondering what the difference will be between the two? Actually, it sounds like XOL is going to be more like what JG wants to evolve into (minus the factions?) - a persistant (unlimited) universe with many pilots out there that fly their ships (with their own skill?) and set up mining operations, factories, etc... You can set up "groups" and "you can join or leave a group."

Beta signup if anyone is interested. :D
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2002 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bagger88 wrote:
Earth and Beyond Review
Just read this review for Earth and Beyond from The Entertainment Depot: http://www.entdepot.com/pc/earthandbeyond/review.php

Haven't played it but here's one quote from the review:

While buying better weapons and leveling up combat will lead to more power and better accuracy, a part of me yearned to take the reins for myself and do some Jump Gate hands-on action.

Good to know that JG is still acknowledged as the leading first person space sim.
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Ionus
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still prefer Tachyon's engine for PvP combat. Oh for reverse and lateral thrusters.

Ionus
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2002 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline vault article about the new PvP in Earth & Beyond
not so much interested in the content, but the actual introduction of ANY pvp into a mainstream MMOG (ie. hyped by major corps) is intriguing, especially the way they water it down.
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Bagger88
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2002 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting concept, I guess there will be no actual "greifing" in the game. I just bought Star Fleet Command III and am about to head into the Dynaverse (and I assume get my @ss handed to me through me shuttle port 8P )

Question: Has anyone played E & B that we know and liked it? What kind of online numbers are they getting. I've been toying with downloading the demo just to see what it's like, but I'm trying to play too many games right now as it is. :E
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Zeshin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2002 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E&B is nice... for a while. There is no diversity at all. Some might disagree, but overall it's true.

There's three things you can do: Shoot monsters, fly pointless traderoutes, explore the map.

Shoot Monsters: This is fun. Get the biggest gun and the biggest shield and shoot stuff. I kinda like shooting stuff, so this is what I usualy do. It does get boring after a few thousand kills though...

Trade: There is no economy in E&B. All trade is "bring this package to station X, plz". There's a few trade routes that pay more $$$ and more exp than others, no naturaly the whole galaxy fly this route.

Explore: Fly to all waypoints you can find. Fun, until you run out of waypoints. Also, huge monsters tend to camp waypoints away from main routes - warp in, see monster, think "oops", die.

You can also mine ore (they call is "prospect" but it's still mining). Doesn't pay much, but you can get goods to build weapons and stuff. Oh yeah, you can build your own equipment. That's pretty fun, but very expensive.

There are events now and then in the above categories. For example, a pirate capital ship warps in close to some station and everyone rally to shoot at it. While it's pretty fun to see hundreds of ships shooting at this huge ship that can blow you away with one or two hits, it only lasts for a few mins. The high level guys that can actually withstand a couple of direct hits, have huuuge guns/missiles that do massive damage to the cap ship. Since these events are somewhat rare, all these people tend to go there and blow the crap out of the poor pirate.

Conclusion: Try it! It's really nice! However, do not think it will last. You can of course play many characters at once (one account = 5 pilots), but it's the same shit but a diffrent name...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RazorX wrote:
RazorX's EnB review:

After I created an avatar and drooled over the ship customization process, I ruined it by actually "flying" that pretty ship around. Endless and Boring, anyone? The huge "monsters" in space reminded me too much of all the worst Star Trek episodes where they were running from some blob.

The one thing I did like was the tutorial. Learning curve was almost zeroed out.




hmmmm...sure does look mouth watering, all except for the reviews. i doubt i'll bother playing the demo, just like Neocron i'm going to avoid wasting my time...for the moment.


Last edited by MajorFreak on Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kami
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Played Neo. It's very boring.

Played EnB, still playing, at least till I get Eve. EnB lacks persistence much in the same way JG does, just from the opposite end. I also hate the constant flying around, but am in a Guild, so they keep me company.

Perhaps Eve will bring balance :)
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Bagger88
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great info, I just got the E&B Demo disc from PC Gamer but believe I will stick with JG.

I just got billed for my first month of Neocron, but haven't played past the initial experience. I did just read an interesting review here: http://www.kevinhiggins.org/000009.html . I believe it is the 3rd response (from Kent Peterson, an Ex JG'er) is very interesting. Better overview of the game in this web page than the entire Neocron site and manual combined.
Quote:
Some Neocron ramblings

Neocron is the second MMOG that I've played to any great degree, after Jumpgate (and excluding MUDs). I'm going to be comparing the two a lot, mainly because it's the only real basis for comparison I have.

Housing

You start the game in your apartment, which you get for free. The location depends on which faction you choose (if you start with Fallen Angels, Twilight Guardians, or CityMercs, you get an apartment in one of the three major settlements outside Neocron itself). The apartments are pretty nice, particularly the ones in Via Rosso. You can't decorate them to your taste, but they're well-decorated already (unless you get one in the Outzone or a bad Pepper Park one). You can buy new ones, larger and better furnished, in the various city districts, for yourself or for your clan. They're secure, and have cabinets where you can store items permanently (the more cabinets an apartment has, the more useful it is, particularly for us packrats).

Something that should be in a FAQ somewhere: the access code in the elevator for getting into your apartment is your character's name.

When the sun rises in-game, it shines right in my apartment window. Beautiful sight.

Communication

Neocron has an in-game email system and an in-game set of message boards - both of which are accessible from practically anywhere. You walk up to a terminal in the game, click "Mail", and there's your mailbox. Click "Forum", there's the list of boards. This is a game made by people who understand some pretty basic things about online behavior, and contrasts starkly with Jumpgate, where players have been asking for the (absolutely critical) JOSSH webpage to be integrated into the game so they don't have to switch tasks to check it since the early betas. Chat is easy and obvious to use, and has all the regular features (including ignore).

Levelling

Levels and experience are handled somewhat differently in Neocron from most games of this sort. You have five stats: Str, Int, Con, Dex, Psi. Experience you receive is targeted towards one (or a few of these stats) - it isn't a one-size-fits-all pool that you can apply to anything. Hack an access panel or research a blueprint, you'll get Int points. Shoot at something with a pistol, you'll get Dex. Beat things over the head with a baseball bat, you'll get Str. Recycle monster parts into useful chemicals, you'll get a little Int and some Dex. And so on. Once you get enough points for a given stat, it goes up to the next level, and you get five skill points to assign to a subskill in that area. This allows for very flexible character customization - pretty much anything you can think of wanting to do, can be done; the only thing that CAN'T be done is to do everything at once. If you want a master researcher, a master constructor, a master warrior, and a master hacker, you're going to need four different people. You can be "good enough" in several areas at once, or pick one thing to focus on.

Missions are available from NPCs or (the better source) from the various computer terminals. They're for the most part self-explanatory, and new random ones are generated whenever you go to look for one. Missions are available both for single players and for groups. All types of activity are there, from simple FedEx deliveries to killing a certain number of baddies to researching or constructing items for your faction - which is a subject worthy of a good deal of discussion.

Building Things

You can buy practically anything in the shops. However, it's always hugely expensive (unless you have a good barter skill), and always in very very poor condition. Practically anything player-built will be better than what comes out of the NPC shops or monster loot, so it's important to know your way around the tradeskill system.

Neocron has one of the most complicated and arcane systems for building things in any game I've ever seen (and this is after playing Jumpgate, where there actually IS a game economy). There's five basic types of "tech-tools" you may end up using: Research, Construct, Recycle, Repair, and Salvage. Taking them in reverse order: Salvage lets you recover stuff from an item that has been worn down to worthlessness (for instance, if you've added a mod to a weapon, you can try and get it back). Repair is for fixing up an item that's been worn down and making it effective again. Recycle involves taking various bits of junk and monster parts (poison glands, chitin, metal plates, that kind of thing), combining them in certain ways, and processing them to produce useful raw materials like Tiberal or Solantium. Once you have the raw materials, you use the Constructor tool to turn them into components - weapon components, ammo components, drug components, vehicle components (!), whatever you have a blueprint for; and once you have the components, you can then use the Constructor on them to actually make the object (again, if you have the blueprint). Blueprints, of course, come from Researching whatever object or component it is you want to build.

Recycling, Constructing or Researching anything requires that the relevant skill be equal to or greater than the tech level of the item in question; the greater your skill, the easier it will be.

All of these actions, of course, grant you XP (usually in Int and Dex, some in Str too). You can pretty much make a living doing this kind of thing, level at a decent rate, and have it be fun, too - many players do just that, and there's usually a crowd of players with high-level Research, Construct, Repair, and Implant skills hanging out in the central Plaza, hawking their abilities. I've mainly been playing a combat guy, but I've gained a number of Int and Dex levels just sitting in my apartment, researching stuff I've found, putting together raw materials and components, and building myself a few guns - good ones, too.

If the player building a weapon has a particularly high Construct skill (as compared to the tech level of the gun being built), there's a chance that some extra slots will be present on the gun when it's done, to which special weapon mods can be added. These include things like laser pointers, scopes, and silencers; but also large-clip adapters, improved gun barrels for longer range and better damage, energy matrices for improved performance on the laser weapons, and dozens of other things that you'll run into playing the game. All in all, this whole system is an extremely worthwhile pursuit, and a good deal of fun besides.

For further details, the "Neocron Player Guides" (under CityCom) section of the Neocron Forums has a number of good articles on these things.

Game Economy

Looks pretty solid. There's even a stock market where you can buy and sell stocks in various Neocron companies (and presumably make money that way). Money is very much an "easy come, easy go" sort of thing - spend a few hours focused on money making, you'll rack it up; and then you can spend it just as fast on new equipment or drugs or components. Most objects used by players seem to be player-made, and the people making them often ask just for tips as payment. Dupe bugs have been known to occur - I ran into an erratic one myself with datacubes - but seem to get squashed reasonably quickly. The shops buy stuff for about 10% (or less) of what they sell the same item for, which does contribute to taking money out of circulation.

Grouping

There is a grouping system. I haven't tried it yet (haven't needed to).

Killing Stuff

Neocron bills itself as the first real massively multiplayer FPS, and it pretty much is. "Pretty much" because given the number of players involved, and the nature of the net and of lag, you can't have the exactitude of targeting and body-damage-modeling found in, say, Counterstrike - no head shots in Neocron, just the regular wear-down-the-hit-points routine; and as long as your gun is relatively on target, and your Deus Ex-style reticle has shrunk reasonably, you'll probably hit what you're shooting at. That said, it does feel much more like an actual FPS than an Everquest or Earth & Beyond style start-the-attack-routine-and-wait system - you have to point the gun at what you're shooting at, if you're firing a burst and the gun goes off target (from recoil, for instance) you'll miss, and you can dodge enemy shots. Shooting, then ducking back behind cover to avoid the counterfire, is an essential tactic. Area-of-effect weapons work well - for instance, there's a plant in the sewers that spits poison clouds. These will hit not just you, but any roaches, rats, and other plants nearby - including the firing plant if you're close enough to it. Assuming you're tough enough to survive, all you have to do then is wait while everything around you convulses and gradually dies. Explosives like grenades also have significant area-of-effect damage - don't go running out into an area where another player is tossing grenades or firing explosive rockets, you won't like it.

There's a good variety of weapons - pistols, rifles, energy weapons, and heavy weapons. They all have stat requirements for use, resulting in another sort of level treadmill much like Jumpgate's system, where every player is always flying the highest-level ship available to them, instead of the ship that might theoretically be best for what they're doing. (The only real exceptions are tows, for massive cargo hauls, and scouts, for maxed-out speed.) This is something I think is really not necessary, with more downsides than good, and in particular takes away the whole idea of choosing your weapon based on what you need it for and what you can afford, rather than just following a straight-line upgrade course. I keep thinking of Fallout, where I used the gun that was coolest (Desert Eagle, baby!) and damage depended on my character's skill at doing head shots (or leg shots), not so much on the weapon itself. But this verges back into the area of targeted shots and body-damage-models and precision that is difficult to achieve with a true MMOG.

There's plenty of places to fight - dozens of trapdoors in the city itself leading to various sewers, abandoned cellars, abandoned housing areas, and so on. Most of the ones of the same type have variations on the same layout - for instance, all the sewers tend to look the same - and monster spawning seems to be calibrated to maintain a steady population, regardless of whether nobody's cleaned it out in the past few hours or not. Then there's the wasteland. I haven't been very far out there yet, but what I've seen (and heard) is impressive.

PVP

Neocron is one of multiple games on the market or entering it where PvP is a major part of the game. I've seen a lot of commentary from rant sites and similar sources (particularly on LtM) to the effect that "UO tried to make PvP work and couldn't, EQ and AC's successful servers are the no-PK ones, so obviously PvP is something people don't want!" This has always seemed to me to be a nonsensical argument (as none of the games mentioned did anywhere near a creditable job of implementing PvP sensibly); and also seems to be coming mainly from people who were so scarred by bad experiences with UO's PvP that they're incapable of thinking rationally about the subject. I'm therefore very glad to see games continuing to experiment with this very basic component of the multiplayer concept, and Neocron does a pretty decent job of it.

Neocron's implementation of the PvP switch is simple enough: an implanted Law Enforcment chip in your character's head. As long as you keep the chip installed, you 1) can't be attacked by any other players, 2) can't attack any other players, 3) need 25% more skill (or relevant stat) for anything requiring a skill check, 4) get 25% less experience for any kills or quests you do. So if a gun needs a Dex 9 to wield normally, you'd need Dex 11 to wield it with your LE chip. The choice is clear enough: a safe game, where no one bothers you, but any achiever instincts you may have will be chomping at the bit. Or, a game where things move faster, but are inherently riskier. And both types of players on the same server (although there is one no-LE-chip server - all-PvP - mixing PvP and no-PvP seems to be the current standard). Jumpgate's PvP switch was/is far less distinct, much like UO's original system (you can attack anybody, but punishments differ depending on the status of the target), and much like UO, it has been progressively revised over time to make the punishments more and more severe and the list of "who it's ok to attack" much more restricted. This was one reason I stopped playing JG - there was no gameplay basis in the restrictions, they didn't add anything to the game, it was just an attempt to cater to the carebear "massively single-player with chat" market.

I kept the chip to level 13 or so, when my Dex was 20 and I was eyeing the SMG I'd be able to use fine if I took it out ... but would have to wait till Dex 25 if I kept the chip. Greed won, and I took it out. The gun was worth it. Particularly since I then built one of the same type myself of much better workmanship.

The whole issue of PvP brings up a lot of associated issues - griefing, meaningful combat, storyline, and so on, which are best discussed in the context of Neocron's Faction system.

Factions

One of Jumpgate's biggest disappointments, to me, was that the game universe always hovered on the edge of all-out faction-vs-faction warfare, never really going for it, and never really resolving it for any length of time either. Some of the Oct-vs-Sol fights came close, but the lack of faction unity and team spirit on both sides restricted it to being a series of retaliatory raids against the nearest enemy station. The total lack of leadership on any side (except maybe the Octs, who at least tried), coupled with the total lack of any kind of encouragement one way or the other from the dev team, left the game with a sort of aimless feeling of steady-state chaos where the only things that counted were keeping stations stocked and fluxing your way to the next level.

I haven't played JG for nearly a year, and haven't been keeping up on it too carefully, but from scanning the boards occasionally, my impression is that since the Themis takeover of player relations, the threat players are supposed to be worried about now is the Conflux, instead of other factions. This is just bad storytelling. As a player, I don't care about the Conflux. I'm not scared of them. I don't give a damn what they're supposed to be planning, I know perfectly well we'll kick their asses and then go back to whatever we were doing before. It's "whatever we were doing before" that holds my interest - because THAT's going to involve player rivalries, faction rivalries. THAT's a conflict, a story, that can get and hold my interest, because it's other players, who are completely unpredictable, and ambitious in ways AI-driven NPCs can never be.

So, in Neocron, when I hear that the Twilight Guardians (the rebel faction) are mounting an attack on Pepper Park (Neocron slums and red-light district), that's important. It gets my attention. It's PLAYERS doing this. It's other players trying to disrupt the city I live in, and who knows what might happen if we just shrug and let them do it? When the Tsunami Syndicate and Black Dragon Clan gang warfare erupts out onto the streets, that's important. It's players fighting players for control of an area where guns do rule the streets. When two player clans battle for control of a wasteland outpost, that's important, because it means both power and prestige for the winner. As a Tangent Technologies agent, when I see BioTec Industries people around, I keep an eye on them, make sure my gun is loaded, and don't pick any tough fights with mutants. Maybe they won't try anything; but maybe they will. These are things that matter. They make the world, and its rivalries, its conflicts, its story, real.

Killing monsters in the sewers keeps one's attention only so long; any high-level game needs to be substantially different, and not have the "level to the top" goal that's been predominant till then. Fighting other player factions and competing with them for power fills this role admirably - particularly when the game is set up to encourage such behavior and make it worthwhile. Jumpgate, for instance, never had any in-game side effects from a crushing Solrain victory at Outpost, or an Octavian sweep at Wake - there'd be some bragging, and everything would keep going same as before. I don't know enough about Neocron to know for sure if there are serious consequences to player victories (this may also depend on what type of victory - whether a wasteland outpost fight, or a city district fight), but there is certainly the potential, and what I've seen of Reakktor's attitude in general is encouraging. (In particular, I haven't seen ANY complaints from players that clan PvP doesn't matter - as opposed to, for instance, Dark Age of Camelot. Controlling the wasteland outposts seems to be high on everyone's priority list.)

The subject of grief-killing does, of course, come up. I haven't personally encountered any griefers yet. I expect I will - there are periodic threads aobut such people, both on the web boards and the in-game forums. It isn't something that worries me, and mainly this is because of how Neocron handles death. Essentially, the only death penalty is monetary - when you die, you can activate a clone at a Gene Replicator somewhere, and pay a fee to regenerate your inventory as well. Skills and stats start off with a temporary 30% penalty right after death, but that gradually wears off after 10 minutes or so. So, for instance, when I walked up to a STORMBot - one of the automated police-protector creatures - with a gun in my hand (because this damn bat wouldn't leave me alone) and he blows me away with a single shot (STORMBot: "Drop that weapon!" Me: "C'mon, c'mon, stop flitting, you stupid -" STORMBot: *Blammo*) - well, grief kills are essentially the same kind of random unfair death. All it amounted to was a 1900-credit teleport from the city gate to my apartment. It's annoying, but little more than that - and even so, the best-known nasty group of PK'ers ("Malevolent Crackheads") seems to do a decent job of generating posses that go around attacking them on sight.

The one complaint the massively-single-player types can arguably make is that they're being punished (by the LE chip) for their playstyle. The thing is, nobody gave them a charter guaranteeing them their playstyle in any game they'd ever choose to play. Hopefully Reakktor isn't hurting for players so much that they'll feel the need to cater to this particular niche the way Jumpgate did - or, if they do, they'll do so with better game design than JG did. (Yeah, I'm bitter.)

Storyline

Supposedly there is one. I haven't noticed anything that could pass as such in-game yet.

Summary

I swore that I'd never play a levelling treadmill again after JG, but this one isn't bugging me - perhaps because it leaves me with plenty of freedom to choose HOW to level. The game atmosphere is good. A week into the game, I don't feel like I've done anywhere near everything there is to do (which is a feeling both Jumpgate and Earth and Beyond left me with after similar times in-game). The city feels real. The world feels believable. The graphics are good. The gameplay is fun. The playerbase is generally distant but not unfriendly (about what you'd expect in a real big city). Levelling isn't a grind. I don't feel ripped off. What can I say? I like the game.


Starfleet Command III is going to be a great game....once the d*mn thing gets patched. Played it hard for a week and really enjoyed myself in Multiplay using the Dynaverse, but OMG the thing was buggy. First patch has over 100 planned fixes :headbang: . The Dynaverse has many servers and you want to find one with 2 things, a decent amount of humans and a slow reset time. The Activision C server resets every couple days, so you have to start AGAIN with your basic frigate which really sucks. The AI players are less than impressive, but they're nice to have with you to fill out your fleet. The game shines in PvP with Humans. Wow are the battles intense! There are such a variety of tactics that it really makes it a challange to kill someone without suffering that fate first. The game makes it fairly easy to run and not lose "Prestige points", so even if your pounded you can usually run...unless they've got you in a tractor beam, targeted your warp core or hit you with a Tacyon Beam. I had a really intense 3 v 3 battle, 2 humans 1 AI per side. We were Borg in Spheres (Cruiser class vessels) (Up on Netmeeting voice) and they were in a Federation Galaxy class and an Intrepid. Dunno why, but we shredded that Intrepid like paper within a few volley's, but that Galaxy kept warping around, knocked out our AI and had me and my bud below 50% armor. What saved our tails was that Borg ships regen and he just couldn't kill us. He eventually ran after about a 10 min battle, really great fun. Patch should be out 2nd half of Jan if you want to try it.
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Kami
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFB III

It shines in multiplayer tactics. Especially with the borg. AI help doesn't coordinate with you. Two borg characters can really wreak havok if they are coordinated. ie Remove shields, and pound, tractor, rinse and repeat. Borg can afford to take hits while concentrating on one opponent :)
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GM-Nibbles
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DONT GET ME STARTED

on EnB what a waste of a good game

get a job warp to gate rinse repeat

Ive a level 150 Progen Warrior
and 4 other clases over level 40 and I am so bored I have started licking the paint of the walls.

aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

:2c:
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crosslink to Neocron thread
looks like someone put up a review at www.avault.com (my #1 gaming news site)


crosslink to Freelancer thread
apparently this one was supposed to be a successor to the failed "Privateer: online" MMOG but it's gone SP and point and click (i think)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2003 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a flight sim type try www.aceofangels.com, it is still beta, however thier test server is currently not open to the public as they are trying to get the latest patch running before opening it up for a 2 day beta sigh-up.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GM-Nibbles wrote:
on EnB what a waste of a good game

looks like EA games nuked Westwood studios (the developer of Earth & Beyond. (see here)
    the spindoctors assure the public that EnB will continue under new management, but you've GOT to be kidding. lol
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MajorFreak wrote:
GM-Nibbles wrote:
on EnB what a waste of a good game

looks like EA games nuked Westwood studios (the developer of Earth & Beyond. (see here)
    the spindoctors assure the public that EnB will continue under new management, but you've GOT to be kidding. lol


[impression type="Cosby as Noah"]Riiiight...[/impression]

Admittedly, I'm still somewhat bitter about Origin's fate, though... :p
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kami wrote:
I don't think they nuked westwood so much as moved westwood closer to corp HQ. Mayhaps the same thing.

No loss, either way, Westwood needs some new blood or inspiration. Their games are sequels of an original hit(s), and EnB is .....a great community type game, but otherwise very boring. It's also one of those levelling treadmills, however - the rewards keep coming if you stay on it, at least till level 150 is it?

I have a level 42 JD on one of their servers. I do so like the idea of ambushing mobs that can't see me.

See Munster ----> Combat Cloak ---------> Teleport Munster to you.
ZAAAAAAAAAP (it either dies or kicks your ass - very little in between)

Or we group together and let the heavy guns go in and wade through the muck and summon them to us when their shields go below 25%.

I run as soon as my psi shield gives. I'm a wuss, and supposed to be a warrior class. My ship is woefully underpowered, considering the abilities I use and the amount of energy they require. Be a psionicist sucks. hehe

Still awaiting Eve....Which is entering Beta 6 (final phase) this week.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline Vault Article
Apparently, World of Warcraft just got an update.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freelancer is both SP and Multiplayer Non-Persistent Server (ala NWN) at last reports. Looks to be mildly interesting and I may download the demo.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:urstupid: thread topic is MMOG, yes? SP/MP no. bad, RazorX! hammer
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I have to admit I am not impressed with Eve at the moment. [Disclaimer, I KNOW its a beta] Sure it looks absolutely gorgeous but it has the steepest learning curve of any game I have ever played.

I deliberately approached it as an out and out Noob player, interested yes, but not going straight into =MA= or one of the other JG squads that have offered me help just to see what I could achieve on my own. In short it is going to take a lot of willpower to get me back into the game as it stands at the moment.

The website is a mess, the manual is nigh on useless and if, as seems to happen to many, you nerf the Tutorial (or the server crashes on you) then you really are in trouble as it tends to respawn you miles from anwhere with you essentially being clueless.

An AI bot did offer me a mission which I can apparently go back to, but I have yet to find out how to do this and the only other way of getting money (you start with nothing but a ship anda couple of lasers) is to go mining. However you need 1000 units of anything before you can refine it which can take you upwards of 2 hours to extract on default kit.

If you can get past this and actually find some of the rocks that actually pay decent money then it does actually look like there might actually be quiet an impressive economic structure behind the game, but factor in the bugs which require you to reinstall the client every now and again (and hence download the patches all over again) and what enthusiasm I had for it is rapidly dwindling.

I think I'll take another look at it in a couple of weeks and see if they have actually added "stuff" that a lone pilot can do because it is currently a very lonely, monotonous experience point and clicking your way through Eve.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2003 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MMORPG site's list of games


oh, BTW, there's some funny shiite going on at SWG fanboi forums...

critic wrote:
When this game was initionaly announced a lot of the stuff that was pulled was at the top of things that they were using to sell the game. In addition a lot of the features that they pulled are never going to be in the game. They have been pulled permanetly. One of the key selling points of this game was PLAYER RUN CITIES. This was in a nutshel the HOOK for the game. For those designers out there, its one of the most important parts of a game pyramid. Its what you use to create the game and all its features. They yanked it and turn SWG into Everquest in space, which is in a nutshel what this game is turning out to be, delays, bugs and all.
fanboi wrote:
Not dumped. Postponed. Do you know why player cities were picked to be postponed? Because by the time enough people have made enough money to buy enough houses to constitute a city, the code will have been put in place. You cannot build a player city the moment you log into the game. Therefore, it is an unnecessary feature for launch.
critic wrote:
Nice try Tjaden, but explain then why I can't even pursue the required profession to run a player city at start up? Politician was pulled. So, was a nice thought, but doesn't hold water. I won't bother to go into more.
fanboi wrote:
Just a couple of comments I feel like making. First, player cities, vehicles, and Dark Jedi, hardly constitute half the content. You might have a point if they had said all non combat skills had been removed or something.
fanboi wrote:
Wit, politican was postponed because player cities were postponed. You're answering your own question by asking why you can't be a politican whose express purpose is to be able to take charge of a gamelay element that won't be present at release. It would be like asking why you can't engage in any activity requiring a space ship.
critic wrote:
DARK JEDI ARE OUT?! DOH, that MAJORLY sucks. I wouldnt say Jedi will only be .01% of the content, but I think Jedi will be at LEAST 65% marketting power. Same with player run cities. Maybe 3-5% content max, but triple marketting power...
fanboi wrote:
Delayed, not out, which is something that much of this board has some difficulty understanding. Jedi are still in just Dark Jedi skills are delayed.
critic wrote:
I am not flaming and really look forward to playing the game but with the Dev's poor track record of estimating how long any feature will take do you really think that the cut features will be back in the game soon after launch. I am planning on not worrying about it and setting myself up for disappointment because I think 6-9 months is a fair estimate. Take any Dev post on a date projection and triple it... Sorry but thats been their track record to date...Most of the team will split at lauch some going to live team, some going to SE and some leaving... Be prepared that the features that don't make it into launch may not come back for a long time. The first priority will be bug fixes, play balance, nerfing and stability.
critic wrote:
And everyone complaining about whiners, you need to find someone who was active on the EQ boards when the warriors, druids, monks, rogues, paladins, clerics, shadow knights, shaman, bards, magicians, necros, enchanters, and wizards where going through thier various class ballancing fits and ask them about whining.
wynar (anti-fanboi) wrote:
I'm so sick of all your whiney little rants. Who cares that it got delayed again. It happens. It has happened to ALOT of games, and people waited and bought the games. How long was Diablo 2 delayed? Look at Ultima X *i think thats the one*, there was so many bugs in that game because it was rushed. If they did bring it out now, you'd be whining, oh you shoulda kept it in beta longer i can't play because of all the bugs you didn't find. You guys just never give up. *sigh*
critic wrote:
Everyone here posting about "having a polished game later, rather than a buggy game in April" must have never played MMO games. Read some of the other MMO game sites to see how much they patch their respective system to fix bugs that's been in their program for years. Then after they fix that, they patch again because it broke something they didn't take into consideration. It's a vicious circle that goes on seemingly forever. It will not change. Coders aren't perfect... and worse yet, they don't get paid to be perfect. A MMO game takes years to be polished... AFTER release. Not during beta's. Get a clue please. Especially when you jump on someone for speaking their mind or for getting pissed off. I certainly don't feel the least bit bad for the beating the devs are getting on the boards since the announcement. They're professionals, they can handle it. Think they give a rats ass about BobbyJoe & PeggySue that kiss their ass when they're told the game's delayed AGAIN & that the extra time WILL NOT help them implement the subtractions of content they announced prior? They deserve the ribbing IMO. They need to get their **** together & make a few GOOD decisions for a change.
fanboi (WARNING! MASSIVE SUCKING SOUNDS!) wrote:
Developers I think we owe you alot of thanks for not giving in to pressure and realeasing shotty merchandise just too satisfy a minority of consumers. Its a shame that we have to wait for this game, but it would be far worse to have our expectations of a great experience crushed by sub-par material. I personally am very gratfull for this postponment in order to ensure quality.


lmao rofl "hardly constitute half the content." It's funny, it looks like all the DynamicRealContent is being nerfed. I do love the counter-counter-semantic-clarification going on...That much loved wynar mode used by the Devs to justify nerfage of anything remotely like DynamicRealContent into "cookie-cutter levelling treadmill"

misplaced concept wrote:
SOE didnt loose any customers today. If there's one thing Sony has learned from EverCrack it's that evreybody will turn up when they turn the taps on, and beg to be watered.

I think the point is that Sony could publish a total stinker of a MMOG, just like EQ, and people wouldn't care because they knew about the game from the massive media blitz Sony did, and stayed because of the massive community thus produced. (not to mention the pkswitches)
    proof that DynamicRealContent takes a major backseat to stupid amounts of hype, nerfs and pkswitching
critic wrote:
Got to love those naive people out there thinking the cut features will be given to us in a couple of months after the game is release. You people are so naive particularly because you guys probably never played a single MMOG in your life and also have no idea how marketting plays a great role in these games. Those features that are supposed to be in the game are just broken promises. It could take a year or two before they even implement it. They might not even implement it at all. As long as you don't see it in the game, don't count too much on it.

oh, they'll keep their promises. they'll add all those "delayed" features, but they'll be nerfed to hell and back.

FINANCIAL DATA
critic wrote:
Oh, yes. Joy. Yay. Thanks for nada. Stock value in SNE (Sony Corp) has gone from 59 to a whopping 36. Yippee for Sony and it's investors. Yes, the SOE branch is really producing. Wow. Check the pitiful decline in the past 12 months - they were really counting on this one, and I am sure - still are. I hope to sell ASAP and wait for it to bottom out. Jeez, and I felt a little good this morning when it gained a few pennies. Yippee.

please note the idiot decided to imply SNE's future depended on SWG in any shape or form. uh huh. riiiiight...i'd say it was the opposite: SNE's stock price dropping equates to corporate axemen slashing funds and putting the heat on things that don't meet deadlines, eh?
    click on that pic for sony PR interview
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2003 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WidowMaker wrote:
Earth & Beyond has everything that for years we've had to listen to people asking for in Jumpgate, such as 3D stations that you can run around in, being able to autopilot across sectors, one-click insta-docking, planetary atmospheres that you can fly through, pretty graphics, etc. By incorporating all these things, they have manged to make E&B two things:

1) Laggy as hell.
2) Boring as hell.

The game is a whole lot of clicking, followed by a whole lot of waiting. Lather, rinse, repeat. Oh and everybody whines on those boards, too.




MirageHawk wrote:
well, it is just different
I have played JG for a while (dont look at my stat I just reset) and I am also beta testing EVE. I did beta test EnB and I think it is just different from JG. There are lot of people who like EnB more than JG if you check their forums. Also, EVE it is different from EnB and JG but I can talk about it because I still beta testing. If you want to download manually go to EnB forums and check technical part. You may find the instructions there.

Yes, and water is wet. thxmuch
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