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Apologies to Americans for this...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 1:30 pm    Post subject: Apologies to Americans for this... Reply with quote

I'm going to use a tactic i find despicable, but the incredible lack of brains shown in each paragraph of this tool's post calls for the nuke option...

Bacci_Galu wrote:
The United States of America is the largest contributer of humanitarian aid to the world. A fact often conveniently forgotten by thw world until it needs yet another hand out. Why do you think THAT is?

In the abstract, that is 100% correct. Unfortunately, asshole, your statistic is meaningless when the subsidies US taxpayers grant to US farmers exporting to "poor starving countries" destabilize the agrarian economies of those same countries' farmers. (you know, the little guy)
    fuck, what kind of fool do you think you are? the happiest kind most likely, ignorance is bliss.
same moron; same post wrote:
The United States of America is the largest importer and consumer of goods of all the industrialized nations. A fact also forgotten by said nations. Lost on them is how dependent they are on our willingness to do business with them and how devestated their ecomomies would become should we stop. Why do you think THAT is?

In the abstract, that is 100% correct. Unfortunately, asshole, your statistic is meaningless when most "trade" is between divisions of a corporation. Did you know that after NAFTA "trade" increased by 40%+? of course you did. But, you didn't know that this was almost entirely inhouse transfers between corporations? (you know, the nice foreign wage slave mentality)

Cocksucker. the conceit to think US dollars are pennies from heaven. Look, punk, did you realize that some oil producing countries are shifting to using the EU currency? Why do you think that is? I'm sure you can figure out the fact the US economy is a complete farce, or did you forget Enron already? "tax cuts for the rich" is your battlecry, i'll bet.
    you ever realize that the US dollar has been the "petrodollar" of choice in oil transactions? geee...wonder why Bush is going to war? go figure
guess wrote:
The United States of America provides the world with a police force. When was the last time the sh!t hit the fan and the world jumped up and said, "France! Help us!" Or, "Germany! Save us!" Or, "Belgium! Protect us!" Why do you think THAT is? When the world does not need The United States of America to protect them, it buys most of it's military equipment from The United States of America. Why do you think THAT is?

Police force? Peacekeeping expenses are miniscule compared to the overwhelming Arms Trade business. It's big business. Columbia is actually the US' major commitment to "peacekeeping", as was Turkey until a few years ago. Before that it was countless other countries that needed "assistance" to deal with horrible commies.

oh right, it's the old 1980's reagan era, "War against Terror" since the "War on Drugs" is coming along nicely in Columbia. Business is good - why shouldn't the US be magnanimous for PR purposes? Sure helps domestic voting to be on the side of the righteous
    oh, i forgot. most of the world's PEOPLE, including the US citizenship, are not in favour of war in Iraq by hook or crook -- especially those who's leaders back the US/UK bid for invasion. (90% of italians are against even UN sanctioned war)
same bat-time, same bat-channel wrote:
As an American, I beleive that it is everyone's right to say what is on their mind. But what seems to be lacking in the world community is a little perspective on the genuine sacrifices this coutry makes for the overall well being of this planet. Should we throw out the Monroe Docterine and the Marshall Plan and close our doors to the world, there would be an eruption of anarchy throughout the rest of the world as yet unseen by human eyes. Why do you think THAT is?

Anarchy? Hardly, those "sacrifices" devastated 3rd world country economies and put all countries at a disadvantage ot the US who suffered no damage during WW2 to it's industrial base. I don't think moaning about the sacrifices of citizen soldiers fighting against the fascists will do you any good when you see them rolling in their graves as US labour unions are crushed, US health benefits smashed, US pensions squandered and looted...i could go on

BTW, those plans forced countries to open their markets and financial controls to US control...which by the 1970's became a devastating weapon used by the corporations who had full reign in an emerging "globalization" that destroys your cute little vision of "noble sacrifices"
    overall well being my arse! more like motherfucking rape and pillage, biotch! What makes you think spindoctored pablum is anything but pablum?!
fagg0t wrote:
Because the world NEEDS The United States of America. Not the other way around. Not really. Do not bite the hand that feeds you...and protects you. Flame's a right that we Americans believe in and fight for te rest of the world to enjoy as well.

That's the funny bit. In the abstract, you are 100% correct. Unfortunately, you fucking abortion, it is the fact i've been talking about the US administration being not trusted by it's own people. Those people...well, i hardly need to quote the constitution to you, do i?

flame? i haven't even begun. that was all off the top of my head. no research needed.

TStrike3 wrote:
That is why those guys are trying to stop us. If they were smart and played nicely... , maybe just maybe we may honor Iraq's business deals made before our imminent invasion.

didn't stop the US Administration making deals with Iraq right up until a couple of days into the 1991 war...actually, a great deal of money was pouring into Saddam Hussein's coffers in the form of WMD used on those evil nasty commie Kurds and Shiites. Of course, back then, Hussein was our "Cop on the beat" who even got away with the attack on that navy destroyer in the gulf. (that's respect)
    BTW, the US administration knows that the Eurodollar was becoming popular as OPEC's new petrodollar of choice...course, you didn't mention THAT teensy factoid did you now?
notice the overbearing Jingoism evidenced in the thread this originates in? I believe it was Sean Connery who first uttered the really horrible quote..."patriotishm is alwaysh the lasth bashion of the viciosh"...anyways, enough of the flame war and on to quoting some decent quotes about "France"
Zaltys wrote:
man, it must suck the way the French gave you guys all that support during your bid for independence. Without them you could never have mustered the naval power you needed. Sure, they had an ulterior motive, but the same can be said of most wars, including those of the US. Stop bashing them for a second. It's always good to have someone with a different opinion to your own, as it lets you see both sides of the argument.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some things I've seen on Discovery channel - not sure how accurate it is, but anyway...

Who is responsible for putting the Taliban in charge in Afghanistan? Who was in charge of putting Noriega in charge? Who was responsible for arming Iraq against Iran? It all comes down to the CIA. 8P

So it sounds like the US is creating their own problem with what the CIA calls "blowback". "We don't care about the agendas of those groups/individuals we deal with - just as long as they can get the job done. There were other organizations that were pro-US, but they didn't look like they were strong enough to do what was needed to be done. So we ignored the fact that the groups we dealt with were anti-US." Not an exact quote - but that is the jest.

And the kids have to clean up their parents' mess. :headbang:
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martlet wrote:
Right now, it seems that it is in our best interest to remove Saddam from power. We believe he funds and supports terrorism. He has proven to be a threat to his neighbors, and some of his own people. He is clearly in violation of the UN resolution. Admittedly, we act on behalf or our own concerns, not the UN's. Ultimately, we must answer to ourselves, not the UN. By stalling on the actions of Iraq's violations, they are lending credence to the belief that the organization is losing it's authority, and usefulness.

in the abstract, he's 100% correct. It's funny in the most unfunny way that this sort of statement is so wrong footed it's stupid; Supports terrorism?? What? I suppose an invasion that's opposed as not righteous (moral majority. gods, the conceit) by most of the democratic world -- even China -- won't boost the ranks of Islamic Fundamentalists? It doesn't cost much to outfit someone with the latest fashion statement from duPont.
    the scary thing is these people don't realize that this equation about stamping out terrorism's "patrons" could be applied not only to more Islamic states, but other oil producing countries like Venezuela...and the USA itself.
Martlet (paraphrase) wrote:
Right now, it seems that it is in our best interest to remove G.W.Bush from power. We believe he funds and supports terrorism (cuba, columbia, turkey, etc.). He has proven to be a threat to his neighbors, and some of his own people. He is clearly in violation of the UN resolution & the moral majority (you know, the democratic citizens of the world). Admittedly, we act on behalf or our own concerns, not the UN's. Ultimately, we must answer to ourselves, not the UN (ie. CNN debate; Larry King Live). By whining about UN security council resolutions, we are lending credence to the belief that the organization is losing it's authority, and usefulness...hoping that this "lack of integrity" holds during an invasion seen as unjust by the UN general assembly which we can't veto. Remember, if it doesn't pan out we can simply remove G.W.Bush from power and replace with another cookiecutter politician -- And praise Bush for standing up to those bullyboys at the UN, and handing him a plush job as a corporate lobbyist as a reward.

See? you can't nerf us! we want to eat our cake and have it too, while the rest of you get to eat cake too.

"Might = Right" is their mantra. Exploitation is their means and ends. *muffy goes off to look for a nice quote to counter that disgusting mantra*
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lmao i love Marlet's "turn over a new leaf" speech! ahahah pffft! (oh, yes, we all make mistakes in the past.)
    all those "mistakes" Martlet and Tstrike point out with great shows of humility are spindoctored lies that even laud the scapegoat as heroic.
we're talking about the "perfect information" game here: It's called substituting a lesser evil and completely avoiding any press on the real evils; It's called alot of things but it all boils down to one word: "propaganda" (ie. counter-counter-semantic-clarification; a much loved tactics of trolls)
    ie. walking straight into a bigger mistake with eyes wide shut
*shrug* In a perfect world the United States would not contain as many Fortune 500 fact, the world would not contain so many billionaires. Money does not grow on trees -- TANSTAASF -- this capitalistic phase will pass, i'm sure of it. (it's survived for just over 100yrs, but then so did the feudal society by a factor of 10+)
    democracy will prevail...slowly but surely, except propaganda works the same way but against the grain. I doubt true democracy will happen in my lifetime, but who knows? A miracle could happen.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this WorldWar3 hysteria a hoot. Remember in the darkest hours of the Cuban Missile Crisis when the USA had someone more bellicose than Dubya, and they would have gone over the brink if a russian sub captain hadn't blinked and refused an order. (moral of the story: i think that WW2 showed us how crazy people could get with following orders - i don't think we'll ever forget that lesson)

BTW, as to the nuke proliferation stuff? Yeah, India and Pakistan are still in the cold war with each other but it's not them i'm worried about. It's the USA once they get hit with a NBC terrorist strike and begin to turn into a police state slowly but surely. (noone's going to have a nuke war. even China isn't that dumb.)
    I worry sometimes about the casual way in which both EU and US servers engage in mental diarrehea just to screw around with the really is Troll heaven. (just look it up in netsp33k dictionaries; Troll = tells lies so that those "in-the-know" have a chuckle when a flame war breaks out)

    You wanna know what the sad bit is? Trolls start to believe that those "in-the-know" have perfect information, as though knowing something is a lie means one comes from "truth" (in the most abstract sense that removes their conscience from the equation)
*shrug* I have faith in democracy and rational human beings that know when to take things seriously and when to not. ("moral majority" my ass!)
    and trolls need to be taken seriously and dealt with...too bad the moderators always think they have "perfect information" and that troll = politically INcorrect
example of real debate
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Znet (Jeffery Sommers) wrote:
Since the 1970s the US has merely prints dollars and T-bills and gets oil, minerals, manufactured goods, etc., in return. The only problem with this virtuous circle of paper for real goods is that at some point the rest of the world might refuse to play along and the dollar could collapse.

We are seeing the early signs of just that. The euro was designed to cut in on Americaís action, and Europeís gamble appears to be working. Indeed, one of Saddam Hussein's cardinal sins was pricing oil in euros instead of dollars, for which if other oil producers followed suit would have been a major blow to the US. More menacingly, on Monday, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad declared that in principle oil should be priced in euros. Iran too has made such noises in the past, but has cooled this rhetoric in light of recent US moves in Iraq and saber rattling directed at North Korea and Syria. Moreover, the Chinese, and other nations, are now hedging their bets by holding more of their currency reserves in euros, and not just dollars. That fiat money has to be paid for in real goods, and the less dollars nations held, the smaller the subsidy the US gets.

Rather than Weberian work ethics and other simple nostrums and bromides used to explain the "success" of the American economy in the 1990s--and even still today among a few Strangelovian types who declare the same even after the huge equity market losses of the new millennium--the dollar-standard racket allows the US to float a half-trillion dollar a year trade deficit with other countries, which the rest of the world pays for! Figure something like a global subsidy of 4k per year to every American. But of course, in this welfare scheme the goods are not distributed equally. The rich take the lionís share, while the rest can content themselves with inexpensive electronic toys and cheap consumer goodies that the global economy delivers to Americans as a substitute for quality health-care, education, or decent housing.

There is a major restructuring ahead on the horizon.

what makes the American people think "their" megacorporations won't turn the great USA into a 3rd world country with IMF and WorldBank controlling their economy? They certainly would give even more profits to the American Elite, not to mention those corps. (does anyone doubt this?)
    i mean, most 3rd world countries have quite a "sizable" elite percentage that one could call "upper middle class"...what makes the hysteria about everyone being placed in slums relevant to this topic? it isn't...I only add this disclaimer because there's always the moron who assumes his debate partner is a moron
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