UMEC Forum Index UMEC
United Mining Exploration Commission: A group of friends playing JumpGate-- "a MMORPG that launched smoothly, breaks from fantasy character setting, emphasizes PvP, and is the first persistent world space simulator that nobody talks about." ~Scorch
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Critique of PND's mining guide

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    UMEC Forum Index -> Flame War
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MajorFreak
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:57 pm    Post subject: Critique of PND's mining guide Reply with quote

Cay wrote:
On a side note the delayed mining tutorial is up


weeeeeeee. okie dokie. now then let's begin.
Cay (color asides are muffy comments) wrote:
Mining, What is it and why do we do it?
the resources gathered are used to fuel the war machines of the factions against the conflux and, from time to time, each other...The first of which is that mining provides commodities to our stations that can only produce so much of the commodities by themselves...Despite our wishes our stations are not self sufficient, and all of the products you require resources to produce. As such, the stations of our galaxy offer missions to pilots to mine the local asteroids for the resources the stations require.
wrongo! mining ratios compared to deus ex machina direct market commodity infusions are insignificant, and even more so contrasted to tow haulage capacity...Besides the current US server situation is untenable even for haulers

Each asteroid commonly referred to as a “roid” is composed of base rock material, or slag, and base commodities types of ores that can be refined into useful products.
sorta. don't forget to mention not ALL base commods can be gained through ore refinement (15 base commod types aren't)

Sufficed to say mining is not without its medals, each class of asteroid has an associated medal or Gem for mining these medals require much patience and hard work and offer large experience bonus and bragging rights.
Please note that even the smallest medal for mining rares...

requires lvl30 for the tow (Supposedly the HeavyMiner will be able to get this medal, but forget the others. besides i'll bet the lvl requirement is much higher than 30 for that ship)


As well TRI offers experience bounties for mining these asteroids dry as they block the galactic space lanes.
HYPE! SPIN! lies lies lies muahahah he's laying the syrup on so much i want waffles too!
:eats:

Therefore the more thrust you have the better you are able to compensate for your increased mass when navigating amongst the very hard and very deadly asteroids in space.
Yes and no. thrust is important not because of agility reasons but because of travel times between station and roid fields. (agility is pilot skill more than thrust, so the "why" is spindoctoring in PND's case)

Now your thinking but I am mining why do I need guns? The answer is you do not necessarily want them, but mining lasers are required to be mounted in your gun mounts.
Again, yes and no. Yes that mining lasers take up precious gun slots, No in the sense that this is the wrong spin on things. the proper approach is "do i have enough missile slots or speed to outmatch any flux that might appear?" If not you have to consider mounting a cbt gun along with a mining laser gun (besides, a slow ammo cbt gun like the straker/landlord enables the VTC1 & gives maximum sensitivity)

The docking computer is designed to keep new pilots safe while they learn to fly in zero gravity.
Docking modx are superflous. if a miner can safely approach a roid they're halfway to docking correctly, much more so than silly transport goons. I'd rather have the joys of the VTC1 modx explained once you can afford it (and if yer mining you CAN afford it)

After early accidents automatic shut offs slow and eventually stop the extraction process as the asteroid super heats to prevent an explosive reaction in the asteroid.
hahahaha omg I R Ph33r Roids now! hmph. besides, i hesitate to list mining laser drain rates since i have yet to confirm the stats. (it's garbage)...besides he didn't list range. (i've yet to do so) and he forgot to list all the types. (If he's showing all the expensive types why didn't he explain VTC1 usage? ah well...he's learning, and i'm giving constructive criticism. la la. 10 to 1 he's gonna call me a troll. lol )

Using this knowledge, many a miner throughout history have tagged and logged asteroid locations for future mining...Asteroids are large chunks of rock floating free in space.
Would be handy to have mentioned explicitly that roid don't move around or disappear (ORB and Homeworld respectively)

This device, with electromagnetic particulate collection fields, increases the efficiency and speed of mining. Of course, this device is only useful when used in conjunction with a mining laser.
man, with that silliness i suppose he should have mentioned ye olde "spinning = faster mining rate" myth as well
hmm Right i think i'm gonna work up a "mining myths 101" now and make sure it's front and center in my mining FAQ

Last edited by MajorFreak on Wed Feb 26, 2003 4:48 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
Cay
Nemesis
Nemesis


Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2003 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muffy,

Thanks for the critique yes some portions of the guide are "Spin" to make it more interesting to read but all the information provided is accurate as far as I know it (if a given explanation is there at all)

to address a few of your points:

Quote:
As well TRI offers experience bounties for mining these asteroids dry as they block the galactic space lanes.
HYPE! SPIN! lies lies lies muahahah he's laying the syrup on so much i want waffles too!


The actual text for clearing a pure roid reads
"TRI has granted you XXXX experiance for clearing the space lanes"
There are no lies in the original statement.

Quote:
The docking computer is designed to keep new pilots safe while they learn to fly in zero gravity.
Docking modx are superflous. if a miner can safely approach a roid they're halfway to docking correctly, much more so than silly transport goons. I'd rather have the joys of the VTC1 modx explained once you can afford it (and if yer mining you CAN afford it)


the original quote is directly taken from the Jossh description. (hey im writing on a budget here =p)

Quote:
This device, with electromagnetic particulate collection fields, increases the efficiency and speed of mining. Of course, this device is only useful when used in conjunction with a mining laser.
man, with that silliness i suppose he should have mentioned ye olde "spinning = faster mining rate" myth as well


This again is a direct quote from Jossh under the Quantar biblio.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MajorFreak
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

touche. (one small teeny problem tho. you fail to account for the utter disgust most of us have for JOSSH; ie. most of it's bollox)
    ah well, it was a fun read and we need *IC* justification as much as possible to encourage n00bs to enjoy playing the game in an Space Opera (ie. epic sci-fi fantasy)
As for accurate mining laser ranges and drain rates i'll add that to my insane "to do" list.


insane :dunce: :E oooops! looks like i was dead wrong on the quantar speed bonus. tee hee. it is 10% faster mining rate as far as i can tell with duster on the storm compared to the oct/sol starter ships. BTW, i'm testing on the offline precious roid and i can confirm that roid ore percentages from draining 1 unit from the same roid varies a bit (i doubt there's roids out there with unique percentages, it looks random. always has been to me)
    also the drain rate for 1.000 units of ore for oct/sol duster is ~5min 30secs which is exactly .003 units/sec - half that of what is shown on JOSSH
I'll be doing range and drain rates for all the mining lasers.

so in other words, it looks like, at first blush that there's a speed AND a hidden volume bonus at sale. HAHAHA we are uber, you are suxx0rz
Back to top
MajorFreak
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2003 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay, test complete on mining laser drains. The test was conducted in the offline sim on a single large roid (exact unit cap is 25). Ship used were solrain and octavian ships, since (thanks to Cay and Timski i've discovered quantars give +10% drain rate in addition to point of sale hidden volume bonus). The time it took 1 unit to be drained was repeated at least twice for each gun. Each time i had to restart JG because docking did not refresh roid. (same roid needed to be tested for control purposes.)
    besides, forcing the ship to have one only cargo space left allowed me to test roid ore percentage drifts (was it random or would it follow a unique pattern?) since i was wrong about quantar speed bonus i could be wrong about generic roid composition. The results of THAT subtest is available here
Code:
mining  official  actual drain
laser   drain     (calc'd at 1.000 cargo)
======  ========  ============
Duster   .0062     .003
Excavat  .007      .0035
Cracker  .011      .0055
Broker   .015      .0075
Banker   .04       .02
Financi  .06       .03
now, suffice to say that the actual drain (units/sec) after 1 unit from a large roid (25 cap) is HALF official stated drain. (in fact, the drain rate after 1 minute is not even close to the official.)
    Look, i don't know why, okay? Hamalzah only knows. If you doubt me go test it yourself...I've wasted enough time
next test is to calculate, finally, roid heating stats. (ie. at what percentage of roid capacity does the heating rate slow down, and at what increments?)...that's gonna be a bitch to do, but since mining is my favorite profession in JG. *g*

Hyperlink to this post


Last edited by MajorFreak on Wed Feb 26, 2003 4:42 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
HiTekHick
Test Pilot
Test Pilot


Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 566
Location: The sticks!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I feared (and thought) - in order to make the laser mine 2x faster, they halved the original mining speed. So in reality, it's max mining speed is the speed listed while active mining (15v+). :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MajorFreak
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm......no, to tell you the truth i did tests before active mining and came up with the 1/2 drain. (confirmed. i have dates and times. it was during beta6 when Iceman and QuantarUnite.com were still around.)
    i think it was probably an old old change they did and never bothered to correct the coding to fix a typo...in other words, they halved the mining rate at some point in the past (nerf) and never bothered to alter the cosmetic "stat" flag (hidden nerf)...either that or they can't add two plus two
Back to top
MajorFreak
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MyRotacol.net Mining forum thread
using that as my sounding board for now...i'll eventually mothball this thread and move the good bits over to my mining 101 thread in UMEC's FAQ forum.
Back to top
MajorFreak
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2003 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to top
MajorFreak
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UMEC classified roid heating stats
(classified because of heating animation videos)
    i'll release roid heating times once i'm satisfied with the test results
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    UMEC Forum Index -> Flame War All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson.
Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group