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LoopHole in RoC ?

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Offical GM
Offical GM

Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 15
Location: Feck knows...If you see me let me know

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2003 6:07 pm    Post subject: LoopHole in RoC ? Reply with quote


please read

Iv'e seen loads of threads on this topic over the past few weeks

What I want is for people to post IF they think there is a loophole that squads/pilots are exploitng and what can be done to fix it.

here is the link to the original
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

? uhm... i'm going to ignore the game engine exploits like JF's patented gatedisco dance. (that's worth banning)
    and don't listen to the stupid calls for squad disbanding. do you realize most hardcore wanker squads change names of pilots/squads like it's going out of style?)
once EP2 arrives and /give is removed while piracy tools and squad war tools are implemented and the bugs are removed, this will abbrogate (sp?) the need for worry over RoC loopholes.

The loopholes are many, and i don't know enough about EU landscape to actually name names at this point.

Anyways, it'll all become moot once the "easy excuses" (KOS/manual war/PoD) are removed...this way noone can hide behind "roleplay" excuses to suit civripping.

Personally, Rollio should have been banned by NetDevil looooooong ago. As for Giomani & Raiderr, i wish their kind would shove off as well. *shrug* ah well, maybe they cleaned up their act, but just looking at their posts on the forums it looks like they can't tell the difference between *IC* and *OOC*...the main symptom of "rping to suit civripping" (i'm sure they'll claim the opposite, but even Hitler thought he was a swell guy)
    BTW, i'm under no illusions of pirate behavior even IF /give is removed. They'll have people camped on stations demanding "PoD" and that'll just be one more hoop they'll have to jump through, except will /give removed they won't be able to fudge the civripping as anything but griefing in regulated space. Seriously, the "bounty" notices should be rare, not nickel and dime stuff. (as for unreg? unreg is unreg, and until we get some real meat to pvp rules, i think ganking someone just cause they are there is just ghey. same thing with hg-hg anywhere)
in the final analysis the whole kit and kaboodle is useless without "self-defense". for without that there's no honour...well, there's honour among thieves, but really. sheeesh

the above implies that KOS lists are stupid, since there's no bloody honour in jumpgate no matter how strenous the thieves object to that irony

fuck em. if those tossers want to have their cake and eat it too, then i say let them choke on it. They're not willing to call for an improvement to the game's honour system while screaming that pkswitches are bad! When's the last time you even heard those scrappers whining about anything but their own navels? It's 'Status Quo' and the kind of stagnation that would make a room full of lawyers cream their Pants.

Problem is it's NetDevil's fault for labelling anyone with a bounty a criminal worthy of being lynched by vigilantes no matter the reason why.
wtf kind of culture do YOU think would emerge from that, huh?
    now, if there WAS some honour in JG that was deep-coded, then maybe the culture might stand a chance, and the real griefers would be easy to spot. Basically, the current situation lets griefers hide in the open and that's exactly what Raiderr, Rollio, Giomani and a host of others get off on.
Fuck, you know what? Terrorists in real life use the same tactics as these wankers. (flame away and hope the institutions become so draconian their populations rise up against the RoC...i mean, shit, that just suits them fine, doesn't it?) Too bad noone bothers to look at what's REALLY wrong. (ie. the ability of these terrorists to hide in the open since there's no fucking honour in JG's engine)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-WerteX- wrote:
Putting too many rules in it and protecting people too much is taking away that realism

The developers never intended to see throttle jockeys running around a universe where money doesn't matter and requipping is a breeze. Realism? where? Are you implying that the pure joy of ganking someone just because you can is realism??

let me tell you something. The "Wild West" was never some silly "Young Guns" movie with hollywood brat pack kiddies running around with girls swooning over them and all that.

Do you realize this game has begun to resemble "Hell's Angels" contemporary syndicated culture? Of course, not. It's all romantic and wonderful as you ride off into the sunset surrounded by adoring carebears who've been ravished and see they were asking for it anyways. (like, ha! what were they thinking anyways coming into YOUR game playing it the way YOU believe the omnipotent and omniscient developers intended their bug ridden flea bag to be played?)
    EDIT: the game resembles Los Angeles and drive by shootings so that gangster n00bs can get their "<insert stupid term for initiation>"...gangsters who're stinking rich from selling crack to legalized whores who moonlight as TRI station comptrollers
originally posted by GMNibbles:
What I want is for people to post IF they think there is a loophole that squads/pilots are exploitng and what can be done to fix it.

"Matter farmers" + "Quake in spacers" = bad economy + bad pvp concept = your loophole in a nutshell regardless of current "bug" exploits like instalaunch, gatediscoing, artyduping, etc. (there's no reason for this game, in it's current state, to attract anyone but pvpers so why even bother pretending otherwise? Let the wynar squads whine - they'd do it even if this game was perfect.)

The solution? jeeezuz. Well, i didn't exactly make it simple for myself now did i? "fix economy, pvp, ships/gear and missions" is the last thing you want to hear, nor is it constructive in any sense of the word, per se. The thing is though that i HAVE explained myself pretty clearly here

*shrug* As for the silly "bugs" the exploiters use "because everyone else does"...i don't see why you can't keep a tally of who's doing the most complaining and who's been complained about the most? (I'm assuming the biggest whiners are actually the biggest offenders, just because the one's i've seen yelling the most seem to be the one's everyone else accuses of hypocrisy)
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Offical GM
Offical GM

Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 15
Location: Feck knows...If you see me let me know

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"fix economy, pvp, ships/gear and missions

I agree 100%

ND really need to get the finger out and sort this ASAP.

The only problem is that it will envolve a complete rewrite of the game (my opinion)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fix JG? insane Fix JG?insane

Yes and I'm the Easter bunny HELP

oK back to ontopic there would be too much to fix for 3 devs (one modeling and designing)
We would need at least one good author, to create a dense background (perhaps Robert Jordan :boing: ;) )
A economist or economy simulation developer (perhaps Sid Meier or an Sim City lead designer).
A space simulation and gameplay designer (perhaps the developer of Freelancer and the developer of Freespace).
And some good bugfixers (perhaps Blizzard).

Ok I know I'm yernuts

And what's the thing with this ava?
If there's whisdom beneath it, I hope the soil upon it isn't to hard to dig.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rant soap
look. it's dead simple, okay? The hardcore pvpers powerlevel via conflux. they do not care about realistic economy only that they have a "simulator" quality gear choice with statistics....they hardly care about ships because everyone flies the same optimal gear almost without variation. And the CERTAINLY do not care a wit what PvP rules are in place as long as they can gank anyone. anytime. anywhere.
:BEEEP: :[
These people aren't merely stat padders. These people ARE whores. Have you ever read, "Lord of the Flies" and wondered about mob mentality? Well, let me tell you these veteran stat padders are hardly unevolved griefers/trolls whatsoever. Do not confuse Cunning for Intelligence, nor Atavism for Civility. How many times must i watch them engage in flame wars and throw a few scraps for the moderators to edit out. You think they even care about your stupid moderation rules? RoC rules are proof that you're innocent as long as you don't get caught. What? Do you think we are not animals? A troll/griefer either evolves or gets banned. Now, what do you suppose an "evolved troll/griefer" is?

A Demogogue. each and everyone stinkin one of them. Look, they don't goto "Dr.Evil" school, nor are they borne "Evil", okay? Dealing with these trolls/griefers is like dealing with an elemental force of human nature. We attempt to use reason and logic, we think about what we say. They merely use wit. They neither say what they mean, or mean what they say...It's just another "Arena" for them. The more they push the edge of the envelope the more YOU become desensitized...and believe me, they're like the freakin energizer bunny on crack.

They gain gratification from making other people lose their temper, especially the self-righteous pacifist ones. To them, all they have to do is that and they're happy. Stat padding is a bonus. What? Did you think their selfish agenda involved more than that?

I know this may seem a bit crazed and melodramatic with dollops of pathos, but i'm really actually fed up with folks getting sucked into the Sensationalism; The Martyr complex on one hand and the Sycophantic behavior on the other; The complete lack of humility; The inability to even recognize the purpose of logic other than twisting rules like pretzels; The fear of self-effacing humour and the driving need for WINGAME buttons...To them "Illogician Tactics" become like some damned unholy revelation. A one-upmanship game. A pissing contest.

They'll use pop psychology, dry wit, flat out Chutzpah...i mean, hell. they'd probably be able to use a spoon in a flame war and not even register on a moderator's ban-O-meter.

hmm I need an "out of breath" smiley. lol

My point is that without moderators who can maintain objectivity and be able to see these fools through the eyes of n00bs, these bullies ruin the entire server because everyone except the stupid moderators know they are flaunting their ability to abuse and harrass while under the very noses of blind, deaf and dumb GMs. Do you realize that when there's a lull in the chaotic squad hissyfits that's when the n00bs get brave enough to start asking questions? It's not a stupid ebb & flow pattern -- it's cause and effect. The only bloody reason this game hasn't been black-balled by the MMOG community is that it's the only bloody game in it's genre.

[b]THE ONLY BLOODY WAY YOU EVER "WIN" IN THIS GAME IS TO DEMORALIZE THE OTHER TEAM AND MAKE THEM QUIT.[b] (and the reason the worst offenders change names and squads so damned often is a way to deflect momentum when they squad/pilot is losing momentum.)
    And they're so in denial they playfootsy with their morale they actually treat this chameleon stuff like it was a "hobby"...And the only way the griefers/trolls actually quit and leave is when they start to believe their own lies. That's when they're not only fighting as before, they're also fighting themselves.
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Sgt 1st Class
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Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shit Muffy.. You hit your head on the nail so hard it made MY forehead hurt.

*prints rant and frame it on the wall*

I will just add that the "troll/griefer" definition is not limited to only PvP players - hardcore traders (aka farmers) deal just as much pain and suffering to the next pilot as the guy that missile spam you. While PvP grief increase your deathcount, tradegrief make ALL stats pointless. Of course, those attributes are only in-game - both groups of the troll/griefers are just as dedicated to the out-game flame wars in the public forums.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd just been watching "The Brotherhood of the Wolf" combined with lack of sleep. *g*

Yes, i'll grant you that GMNibbles topic/question relates to Squad exploitation of Economic, Mission, PvP, and Ship/Gear/Station/Object exploitation....i'm sure there's at least a handful of "bugs" in each category that are worthy of a big phat ban button.

But, what can we do about it? On the SHORT TERM? like right now with no coding? we the community isn't the one needing a smack upside the head, it's MG, TG and ND that need a good trout thwacking.

Stay out of F5:help (both servers)

What will this accomplish? A whole fuck of a lot. First of all, you idiots don't belong there. You belong in F5:chat or F5:de /F5:eng, damnit. DO YOU KNOW [i]WHY[i/] THAT CHANNELS INFESTED WITH IDIOTS? They don't give a damn about n00bs and the countless, endless times i've witnessed some n00b being condescended to. YOU PEOPLE (OPs/GMs) DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ANSWER WHAT'S ASKED JUST LIKE THE THROTTLE JOCKEYS DON'T! And what do they give a damn about? Jostling for position to play oneupmanship with the "20 questions" on the off-chance someone official shows up to get their ring finger kissed. On F5:help like they were f-ing holding court and the n00bs benefited from their presence.

They don't. You don't. We don't. Only the hardcore troll/griefer benefits by showing everyone that they get treated like peers by the officials while they ram the concept that they're god's gift to Jumpgate down n00b throats every damned chance they get. The griefers/trolls flame n00bs fer christ's sake every chance they get over "what is griefing/trolling" like they were some kind of wise's so bloody childish.

IF YOU STOP GOING TO F5:help THE TROLLS/GRIEFERS WILL FOLLOW. Why? If you think they care one little bit about lording it over the n00bs, you're highly mistaken. I have always gotten the distinct impression that's the least thing they care about. Jesus H. Christ. Why do people not listen to n00b advisors like myself on this issue?

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