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status quo ante bellum

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:52 pm    Post subject: status quo ante bellum Reply with quote

GMSilk wrote:
action from MG on the current increase in pirating.
  1. We are willing to operate police force patrols of regulated space with TRI Enforcer accounts.
  2. The purpose of which is to make regulated space more dangerous for bountied pilots (as is unregulated space for civ pilots) and
  3. to drive them from regulated space back to unregulated space where there is no TRI law and hence where a criminal should be.
  4. A bounty is the punishment imposed when a criminal activity has been performed and not been made up for in the eyes of TRI, i.e. worked off.
  5. The ways how whether or not it is too easy to to work off a bounty is a separate issue not touched here.
  6. In the event that any pilot breaks any of the RoC (discoing, griefing, abuse etc) during an encounter or in the presence of a TRI enforcer, the MG Rules of Conduct as posted on JOSSH will be enforced.
  7. Only bountied pilots will be engaged. Under special circumstances they might be escorted to the next gate to unregulated space instead.
  8. Pilots who have been escorted out of space who subsequently return with a bounty will be shot down on sight
  9. 303 bounty pilots will be allowed to continue as normal, unless they are performing any illegal activity
  10. Any pilot who attempts to attack the TRI Enforcers will instantly be retaliated upon
  11. TRI Enforcers will be piloted by GM and OP accounts only
  12. TRI Enforcers will not assist pilots with any other matters other than patrols for bountied pilots. Their primary and only goal is the removal of bountied pilots from regulated space.
  13. Please note that we cannot differentiate between anyone and all will be treated with the same rules. So if during a patrol pilot <insertnamehere> is seen with a bounty, even if they have never had a bounty before, they will be treated as above.
  14. Also pilots who are known pirates but do not carry a TRI bounty will be left alone for the above mentioned reasons.
  15. Consider however also possible long-term effects. The majority of the OP/GM team are not PvPers. Enforcer patrols are not a guaranteed win.
  16. Even worse, if certain people find out they enjoy fighting (and downing) TRI enforcers, they might try to "spawn" a patrol using increased activity.
  17. This might also lead some people to the (incorrect) conclusion, that civripping is now more legitimate, as there are now Enforcers to defend the civilians.
  18. So it's entirely possible that this will have the opposite effect.
  19. The Enforcer, contrary to the Sentients ,will not primarily be there to give an exciting PvP experience to the ones they are fighting.
  20. All in all, Jumpgate is a game that should rather live from player self-policy rather than publisher interference.
  21. Everyone has read about or even experienced examples where publisher interference caused serious problems in the past.
  22. All these points, and more, should be considered, keeping the big picture in mind.
  23. We are hopeful that the squad war system and pirating tools in Episode 2 will help alleviate some of the major problems that have appeared recently.
#1. I suppose you feel it's unnecessary to post your planned route preference and think it'll prevent folks from finding out once you start patrolling? Excuse me, but i think the whole premise of your first point is bogus, irrelevant and the use of the word "patrol" precludes intelligence. Sorry, but i feel that when an enforcer is operating as a policeman they can use the tools available to them. I remember GM_Savant publically tracking my location once, so i'm bloody sure you can track someone who's bounty message appeared. (oh dear, i'm soooooo sorry you can't track who the victim was, but then again THEY DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHTS, DO THEY?!) "We are willing"...what kind of BS is that? You are willing? Tell you what, the majority of players AREN'T willing to put up with griefers, and this "patrol" scheme you've made up is laced with condescension. (oh, poor you getting flamed via ingame chat - at least YOU DON'T PAY TO BE FLAMED! play? what's that?)
#2. hahaha. More exciting you mean? jeezuz. you really have no BLOODY clue how pvpers and nonpvpers differ do you?
#3. roofle! criminal? i suppose you really believe that a bounty is a criminal is a griefer? Look, just code inhibitor chip and stop wasting our time. Either that or go play EverQuest or Ultima Online. (i'm suuuuure they had no choice about pkswitches either. *sniff*) lazy sods
#4. "not been made up for"?? WTF is that supposed to mean, mr.Lawyer?! in the eyes of TRI?!?! hahaha. Compared to TRI the byzantine empire would look the very model of government efficiency! You even think i'm willing to take TRI seriously, *IC* or *OOC*? give me a break! (besides, you folks wouldn't know a griefer from a pvper if one came up and bit you on the arse)
#5. "a separate issue"??! Whoa! I'm sure you can stop the tide as well, be my guest. Can i take popcorn to your funeral? Dismissing the main objection to your whole bag of shiite by merely dismissing it from the debate hall is the very definition of CONCEIT.
#6. please define griefing, for we the community fail to see how you deal with this issue effectively. (just look how long it took you fools to deal with eF squad)...ten to one they're still playing too. *spit* The community hardly respects your judgment on such crucial issues, so a TRI police pilot will be looked at as Judge Dredd (judge/jury/executioner). An insane one at that.
#7. special circumstances? oh thanks, really do appreciate that any bountied player is seen as a criminal. I'm not going to bother listing the other ways you can get negPR because I'D BREAK YOUR MOUSE'S SCROLL WHEEL! You can thank me later.
#8. KOS lists eh? gee, how thoughtful. i suppose tracking of those repeat offenders will take all your brainpower and will prevent you from tracking who are the REAL offenders. my my my...poor you. i suppose MATH 101 is too much for poor old you? tsk tsk...those darned bounty message goes oh so fast when you're hobknobbing with your groupies on F5:help (since n00b queries on help booths are offtopic i'll not bother flaming yer arse on that topic)
#9. 303 bounty pilots should be the one's YOUR ASS ESCORTS! hellooooooooo! McFly! anyone in there? *tap *tap. (i suppose a samaritan who saves the 303 from a vigilante will be your next fucking target?!?! you might want to "escort" to take advantage of such for stat padding, mr.griefer)#10. my. now the big talk. Sorry, this ain't kindergarden playground time, k? capiche? Your words mean nothing. NOTHING! you think i'm even interested in pvp? let me tell you that the PVPERS think even less of that "threat" (to them it's a freakin "come-on") yeah, go flirt elsewhere. plzkthxdrvthru
#11. only? well, i would hope so. Pffft! Then again, if Zeshin or Xindaan or countless others i TRUST flew one i'd feel a hell of a lot safer, mister.
#12. Thanks for confirming you'll tell 303's to "hf gg cya gl!! hahaha" (oh, BTW, mr.Lawyer, when one uses the word PRIMARY one looks the complete fool when the next words are ONLY)
#13. Thanks for confirming you'll track people who got special treatment for escort to unreg, but you won't bother tracking who's the top civripper for the evening. gee..don't want to strain yourself. awww don't cwy have some tissues.
#14. No shit, sherlock! too bad you don't extend the same courtesy to known pilots who because of the RP felt obliged, on principle, to uphold their *IC* character and that samaritan you just ganked for escorting that 303 home. thanks a whole hell of a lot for NOTHING. I mean, you go out of your way to make sure it's a whole hell of a lot of nothing. You couldn't have made it any more explicit.
#15. oh that's rich. As opposed to 550v sentient squids? hahaha...christ. who CARES! your statistics are meaningless. If i was smart i'm going to be assuming you're gonna use civilian tags? you mentioned that yet, mr. pooleesman? nooooo. i'm sure that's left to individual "discretion" (might as well, noone's going to respect you're just a glorified bounty hunter vigilante scum without the stat padding)
#16. worse? wait a minute, lemmie add zero up here. hmmm...carry the 9...uhh...ah, A BIG PHAT ZERO! Wow. yer like a genius with math aren't you? I'm sure that's not the first thing pvpers will think, perhaps it'll be the second thing right after farting/burping/tellingajokeonF2
#17. legitimize civripping? *gasp* do tell! like they don't have enough with /give, unreg, registry, bounties, xp hits, stupid RoC rules?? OMFG!! NOOO! you mean that there's no good reason for legitimate civripping now!?!?!? *faint* Are you implying civripping IS griefing?? YOU ARE! and don't even dream about thinking about denying you are. punk. Code inhibitor chip. you're wasting our time. either that or go play least they're HONEST about how lazy they are over pvp.
#18. you know, that's the one thing you've said so far that makes sense.
#19. oh. you mean pvpers really really deep down inside don't enjoy certain types of PvP? jezuz h. christ! what's the weather like on YOUR planet?!
All in all, Jumpgate is a game that should rather live from player self-policy rather than publisher interference.
#20. "self-policing" has never worked because "self-defense" has never been coded. in short, we cannot pretend there is honour. Have you cheapened the word so much that "honor" is counterfeit currency? (little hint: i don't even consider honour to be currency at all. it's just irony, something you don't seem to get. period)
#21. Yeah, i remember UO's troubles with pvp. i remember that well. i also remember every game you can name that's had problems WASN'T A SCI-FI SPACE SIM. get real, grab some coffee and don't go so offtopic my eyes bleed!
#22. big picture?'ve probably never even seen the forest for the trees, so there can be no understanding for you. "big picture" hahaha...You folks really think yer the bee's knees?
We are hopeful that the squad war system and pirating tools in Episode 2 will help alleviate some of the major problems that have appeared recently.
uhm...i don't need to comment on how facile that is, especially seeing as how noone knows whether /give will be even considered a topic for debate with ND...personally, they're even more clueless and stupid than you seem to be.

"I know what you're thinking -- did he fire five hundred shots or four hundred and ninety nine? In all this commotion, I really can't remember. So you have to ask yourself, do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"

Last edited by MajorFreak on Sat Feb 01, 2003 6:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2003 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rofl. Gooooooooooo Muffy!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MG general forum thread
Originally posted by OP-Toast
AFAIK the "priority" at the moment is getting EP2 finished. There is a problem on the server that needs dealing with _now_, not "soon".
i don't recall seeing how the "vigilante culture" and "ND coding" are an inseparable issue at all. How can you say to us that MG isn't responsible for anything? You imply that MG's attitude cannot create an atmosphere that encourages a new shift against the "self-policing" vigilante culture. (in fact, Silk's original concept has been set in stone, hasn't it? I see no feedback i see only excuses and fillibusters)

I did not once, not ONCE imply in any shape or form that MG codes this flamed with a troll statement and have not corrected your mistake but continue to argue semantics i never even fact you go so far as to shove foot in mouth. If MG considers ANY topic that deals with the "vigilante culture" to BE identical to "game engine coding" then they've washed their hands of responsibility and hold high the standard of, "Ignorance is Bliss" while partaking in vigilante benefits without the responsibilities.
  • why is tracking pilots who light up the TRI bounty message impossible? is that because the only *IC* use for it is *OOC* aggrandizement and ego padding, isn't it?
  • why is it that 303 bountied pilots being escorted is seen as insignificant concern and even a flame on my part.
  • why is it that "special circumstances" of escorting bountied pilots to unreg is being tracked for repeat offenses and unwillingness to track TRI bounty message repetition is not?
  • why is it that MG considers any and all bountied pilots (except 303) to be valid targets for vigilantism?
  • why is it that MG thinks THINKS for one bleeding second we care a wit that you folks get to play the game for free while being under sooo much stress (so? SO?! how much stress do the nonpvpers get for being ganked, griefed and harrassed...apparently we pay for the game "as is" and RoC be damned unless we have a mountain of proof, even then some fool griefer only needs to mention his "RP" is being "childish" and they get away with it)
I cannot believe for one second that critiquing the very culture of vigilantism is dismissed as "developer concerns alone" and abrogates MG from any self-education.


do you folks really think you're immune from what has happened on the US server? You're not that far away from ND's ignorance about JG's "demographic"
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MG general forum thread
you know, we once talked about defense turrets long long ago, but ND stated it drives the game engine bonkers, but since this topics about what MG can do RIGHT NOW, i'd suggest just putting more "cops on the beat" for visibility.

It won't matter how effective this is at preventing griefing or even the crappy vigilante culture built around ND's coding, it would simply be a presence. (to think it would DO anything beyond the morale boost means MG is smoking some serious crack)
    does anyone else get the impression MG get's insulted everytime some points out they hardly understand anything BUT placebos? or is it just me?
*sigh* it's like we give them constructive criticism and they react like we've pissed in the soup or something. I've yet to see GMSilk (who's bravely(?) stuck his head in the lion's maw) come to a realization the concepts seriously flawed and though he's put in limp disclaimers the plan might even backfire within the framework first presented, i fail to see his understanding that the "disclaimer" is practically a "manifest destiny" (i forget the actual term...something prophesy or somesuch...oh yes, Self-Fulfilling Prophesy tho they know it not)
    i guess what i'm saying is that in it's current form this "placebo police force" will simply fail to do anything but boost morale by it's presence in the most superficial sense of the word. In fact it WILL backfire in more ways than the one mentioned in the disclaimer
The thing i despair about is that these posts of mine will be summed up with "boo hoo muffy hates the whole idea" and "never gives constructive criticism" and "muffy never gives suggestions" and blah blah laa dee freaakin dah! Grab some balls and stop expecting people to feed you pablum with silver spoons! I fail to see the need for me to repeat ad nauseum suggestions i've posted. Too bad i tend to lace it with flames (or visa versa) grrr's because i DO see the Larger Picture whereas MG merely claims to do so. Semantics is a wonderful tool, just don't expect because you can form politically correct sentences doesn't turn you into Sun Tzu.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the idea of having police patrols, though they should be NPC or GM, not player. Easier ways to have the same effect, though.

Self Policing works in only very extreme cases. Either way you can't stop the OOC abuses that will come from such an activity if it were to be player based. Just be more targets.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The is honour among thieves
indiscriminate opportunism has been accepted by the community (and netdevil/mightgames too) as the connotation of Honour. Consentual pvp stripped of appreciation for other playstyles becomes indiscriminate and opportunistic.
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