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Piracy Tools (scanners, burglar and bombs)

 
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Your opinion of the tools
As is, plus remove /give
71%
 71%  [ 5 ]
As is
14%
 14%  [ 1 ]
nerf bombs
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
nerf bombs but remove /give
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
can't we all get along?
14%
 14%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 7

Author Message
MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2003 7:46 am    Post subject: Piracy Tools (scanners, burglar and bombs) Reply with quote

Fido wrote:
[ soapbox ]

Uhh, I hate to say this, but -=MACK=- (and several other cargo squads) spend a great deal of time and effort hauling needed commodities to stations so that equipment is in stock. While its true the stations may make more than is required, part of the difference between US and EU is the lack of organized willingness on the EU server to haul commodities at low profit to manufacture equipment. Thus the better stocking situation here.

[ /soapbox ]

There is an overabundance of PvP, pirate, and griefers in EU, making cargo hauling impossible or no fun. There is a better balance in US, where hauling cargo can be done on an organized scale by several squads. BTW, the best situation for pirates would be LOTS of cargo haulers and a few pirates. A server full of PvP must lead to griefing due to boredom. Similarly, having a few pirates makes cargo hauling interesting, since flying around with invincible armor makes shuttling even nuclear weapons boring. (Wouldn't it be cool to carry cargo so dangerous that if you blew up, the explosion would kill all the ships around you???)

The real reason death is "meaningless" is the huge amount of player cash. If you want your deaths to be meaningful, don't farm. (Continue with endless farming thread discussion...)

Naturally, PvPers who want to experience "meaningful death" can die and then fly off to an inconvenient station for their restocking needs. What you really want is for the player that you KILL to have to fly to another inconvenient station for his equipment! Meanwhile, you can at least be reassured that he is losing money, and will be forced to farm for at least a bit longer than you to refit. Then begin repeating slowly after me: "Fix the economy, fix the economy..."


bullshit. or is it? is he just naive? the situation on the US server is now completely self-sufficient is it not? nonproduction centers produce anything needed? (the cash siutation is a joke. even EU has too much cash)

Fido wrote:
Pirate tools sound very cool! Many many questions though

WTF okay, WTF is this idiot smoking? that's it. no more being nice to =mack= just because they're nonpvpers..."PIRACY TOOLS SOUND VERY COOL!" MY HAIRY ARSE! EVEN RACISTS HAND OUT BETTER TOKEN GESTURES! That fucker has no appreciation for anything but his squad's beancounting. period. "if it wasn't for us!" and "piracy does nothing!" (that's what he's implying, why bitch otherwise? i mean, shit it's not like piracy tools will be used exactly the way they were intended)
    jeezuz christo! just look at the RP possibilities and not IMPLY that scanners should be some uber "WINBUTTON" were your enemy du jour get's a bounty cause he has your pet peeve cargo aboard. I mean, WTF is he yapping about? WTF WTF WTF omg like scanners are "supposed" to give a complete manifest, tie one's own socks and allow you to flame the other person for lousy profit calculator usage? FUCK YOU FIDO YOU SACK OF SHIT!
Quote:
What happened to the idea of cargo being able to be ejected by the merchant, or the ability for ships to scavenge "left overs" from pilots who have been sent home in a pod? Was it discarded as impractical, or reserved for the future?
Oh go stick it. It was soundly defeated by the players who have even the slightest clue about "MOB PACKS" of UO fame. You just pulled this shit out your arse to look cool, didn't you? cockmonger.
STFU STFU STFU THOSE WEREN'T QUESTIONS THEY WERE WHINES. PERIOD. BITCH.





My opinion? This scanner modx is a TOTAL BOON for roleplayers. now they can actually avoid the dangerous "suspension of disbelief" of other pilots while running blockade checks, station strip roadblocks, contraband vice police (so we don't have them, but do our *IC* personas think there's none? pffft haha suuuuure)
    if it gave total manifest we'd need a "jammer modx" to block it, and since ND are too lazy to allow this option because it fails the "occam's razor" and "KISS" techniques
And besides, this way Roleplayers can actually go *IC* instead of getting berated with "*OOC* oh stfu and /scan my manifest moron, you stupid RPer" (because if they do that, the *OOC* dudes get treated to: oh, there's a discrepancy showing here...)

YEAH BITCH! THAT'S WHY YER RANTING! YOU'RE AFRAID OF BEING INCONVENIENCED BY ROADBLOCKS WHERE YOU CAN'T BLOW BY IT SHOWING YER MANIFEST AND GIVING THE BIRD
Quote:
Well, I wanna gold plated toilet, but that's just not in the cards, is it


Last edited by MajorFreak on Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:37 pm; edited 4 times in total
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is how you flame an idea while not sounding like a faggot:
SunDog wrote:
Pfft
Ok...I haven't read all the reply's and I'll keep my opinion VERY short.

FORGET the pirating tools, they will inevitably ecome as useful and desired as the thief.

Pirates will never take the risk of pirating equipment from a tow, why should they? PODing takes less effort, risk and the payoff is huge by comparisson, they take no bounty hit, no -pr and are not weighed down by cargo they then have to return to a station with while heavy and likely being chased to get their money...so WHY would ANY pirate choose to pirate in this manner? Where is the payoff....I tell you this is a GRAND IDEA...but it's only a good IDEA in all practicallity you and I both no this will go nowhere...sorry I just don't see the usefulness I'd rather you worked on something that would be used like the AF....

My two cents.


see? he posts imaginative and innovative rants about specific stuff he's run through his mind about application...stuff that obviously hasn't just come out of his arse. Stuff you can argue with and not expect a pouty/sulking reply which makes us wonder if his GF gave him blueball syndrome.

Personally, i believe my "piracy tools will take on more than the 'piracy' role"...i'm bloody not surprised Virgil spun it that way. whatta dipshit to forget he was gonna get dipped in shit for being a schmuck.

One way to come back at SunDog is remind him that /give is a flawed tool and should be removed. (n00b help arguments should be laffed at. noone likes some jackass santa claus showering them with condescension; there's damned few exceptions to this, folks. i HATE /give for that reason alone)

Another way is to remind him that there are many ways of describing these "tools" without ever using piracy connotation...way alot of us have been callilng for them. In fact, the amount of calls for Cargo Scanners and Cargo Transfer items by nonpirates for nonpirate uses dwarfs the pitiful number of pirates who don't think tools are for girls. (ie. the Real Pirates don't each Quiche crowd; the "get rich quick" folks who've overrun the US server with "farming" and "griefing")


Lastly, there's the route that tells SunDog he's a Real Big Man for speaking out against something that obviously will become as useful as tits on a bull. (code for: "blow me you quake in spacer who moonlights as a 2nd account farmer")
    but that would be mean. he really did try his best to say what he felt, and he was correct, but only for pirates. What do i really really think of his thoughts? Well, to tell you the truth the actual thief modx (the "burglar") really will be useless for the professional pirates since they know damned well noones gonna want to sit still anyways. at least the smart ones will refuse to play along...But, the scanner will be very useful. VERY useful not only in it's ability to see the true cargo, but also to act as a deterent - it will force station strippers and matter farmers to hide their true intent behind innocuous cargo, and be smart about it. (ie. noone's gonna buy the idea you're hauling 251 barium for profit)
see? anyways, i'm tickled pink. overjoyed and extremely impressed NetDevil has finally FINALLY coded something we've asked for for years. (now all we need is size3 combat lasers)
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Nicator
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
One way to come back at SunDog is remind him that /give is a flawed tool and should be removed. (n00b help arguments should be laffed at. noone likes some jackass santa claus showering them with condescension; there's damned few exceptions to this, folks. i HATE /give for that reason alone)


This should warm your heart MF :D

MG general forum thread


FFS

If they ever introduce S3 combat lasers, I want some of the extra weight ammo users have to suffer removed. 9k extra mass on a nix is totally obscene. Screw increased ammo bins, I'd rather not move like a craptor on valium.
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://forum.mightygames.com/showthread.php?&postid=174203&t=4596#post174203

BURN IT! SEND IT TO HELL!!
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2003 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Lupus5150 wrote:
You want me to vote on something based on ND's (rather vague) description of how new features will work, without seeing them in game first? Don't make me laugh.

If the new tools make it ridiculously easy to pirate, then it's not an issue - /give will be much less attractive. If they are useless to the pirates, then they will stick with PoDing.

Your ideal scenario here is one where the new tools are about as profitable as the current PoD situation. In this situation, you'd have to see how things played out - if people continued to abuse the role of pirate to justify killing easy targets, then you could make a case for removing /give to either remove them, or force them into a situation which is better for the traders.

Only once the tools' effectiveness is seen should a debate be started.

And I notice most people screaming that the new tools will make trader's lives hell are neglecting the Traps. Yes, someone stealing even 5 MC's would be bad. But a tow filled with 1/5 Traps kills the pirate on the 6th unit (on average). You lost what, 3m? Pirates lost a heavy ship. If bountied, they probably lost more than that. Would they risk that? On the other hand, would the rest of the pirate crew let a tow that Trapped their buddy get away clean?

This is a huge change in balance/functionality. It will have to be play-tested before anyone claims that it is the only way pirates can go.


Last edited by MajorFreak on Wed Feb 05, 2003 5:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2003 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you know i just thought of something after reading this:
Quote:
Get rid of it.

It's about time pirates work for there money it's to easy to jump in to a sector, spot some1 they think can't kill them and shout POD even if they can't catch them and hope they pay you. And I know pirates are going to say but we take a risk on bounty, but not if they pay?

Also what a good RP that would make having to organise a sucessfull pirate raid ie not getting killed befor you sell stuff.
Traders having to fund a police force to protect the trading routes(mabe the non rp pirates will take this job as well as most of the PvP crew, licensed killing and they get payed)

Good to see the pirate hunters out at last, pirates are outlaws and should be treated as such.Shame to see pirates moaning about being killed while just trying to get there pol back and are 0 armor (Your an outlaw thats why ppl try to kill you)

Also it might bring some of the rich pilots in to the game. as now its easier for them to pay 250k than it is for a poor pilot who mabe has worked hard and long to get there money dieing a few times in the process.

didn't meen to write this much so ill stop now


I thought, "wait a minute, /give never gave a bounty for a PoD"...now they'll get a bounty for both a PoD and a podding (if they get rid of /give)
    further reflection says that pirates will publically bitch how sucky the pirate tools are because, look, they're choosing to using /give instead because it's more attractive/efficient/etc.

    yeah, riiiiiiight. Thanks, Enron. we trust you to regulate yourself and what's more, we trust your industry to be "self-policing"

    Guess why they bitch? oh, it wouldn't matter how cool piracy tools were...the fact they can use /give as leverage to make the tools UBER is job #1. (whaddya think i hated Rollio as a TP even way back in beta6? the fucker had his agenda. "have your cake and eat it too")
Yeah. i can just see him right now on the TP forums spinning his, "this is for the good of the game (and oh yeah, get rid of cargo insurance)"
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Why griefers are scared of piracy tools
Cay (wannabe pirate) wrote:
This is your one warning, Not all pirates will fly alone, and if your bombs kill my wingman I will not be afraid to send you to hell for your trouble.
Anguish wrote:
That's nice. Thanks for participating.

Let's look at cargo pilot options now with PoD.
  • /give money -- result: cargo pilot has less money, continues on unmolested. Pirate has more money.
  • Don't /give money -- result: cargo pilot gets ripped, loses money, suffers a death. Pirate does not benefit or lose from this.


Let's look at the options with your scenario.

1} Let the pirate take cargo -- result: cargo pilot has less money, continues on unmolested. Pirate has more money.

2} Equip bombs -- result: pirate dies and loses money. Wingman kills cargo pilot, but doesn't benefit or suffer from this. Cargo pilot suffers a death, loses money.

My point is that the two fundamental options available to cargo pilots with this new system are essentially unchanged. The resulting consequence tree also stays unchanged as long as the cargo pilot goes along with the pirating action. However, with cargo piracy tools and bombs, cargo pilots can actually impact on the pirate community. You CAN die, where before you really couldn't. Also, you suddenly have to split the profits with a wingman. And even after a successful raid on a cargo ship, you still have to make it back to a station, with cargo in hold, and with a ModX and gun slot consumed for your piracy gear. Wingman or not, you're suddenly a cargo pilot. YOU are a target for any retribution-dealing pilot or fleet.

Have a nice day.




The REAL problem as I see it is that I predict pirate groups creating a tool similar to FRG's. I forsee pirates knowing with reasonable accuracy what's in a cargo pilot's hold, including how many bombs. I see this tool giving "risk" factors for each cargo pilot. "Pilot X launched from Amananth, 5 bombs, 200 Instigators on board, risk 2.5%" Cargo scanners aren't supposed to reveal bombs in cargo, so I see this as a problem
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJ_Sid wrote:

1) "Pay us 5 Million or we will strip you of your commods!!"
2) "Pay us 5 Million or die!!"
3) Initiate cargo robbery using burglar without option to pay a cash demand.

I believe that in this instance a 5 Million (or possibly even more) demand is justified...compared to the value of the cargo.
say what??? So you're saying if /give is left in then the RoC regarding PoD maximums (in reg space) of 250k should be "renegotatiated"?? Of whom do you speak? Lessie now, are you being sarcastic now or what?

Pirates will simply keep their PR above 3, set up group ambushes and use spies to scan/monitor/use3rdparty commod haulage, using rangers (or new HF if they fast enough) they'll all drain simultaneously from unescorted target before TOW can suicide (most likely pouncing from roid mask positions as tow passes on way to a distanced JG)

What's the gain? Well, remember that even gear can be stolen (one tow on an instigator route anyone?) and for sanity's sake let's say 5 pirates steal 1 MC each before tow pilot can react effectively. (that's 3.0 million with x probability of sucking a bomb; say 50 bombs so 10% per pirate and assume one pirate bites it with positive PR still)
    that 3million easy just for jumping a matter farmer and a good chance one pirate bites it without negPR. Gear tax and stuff means there's a 50% chance one pirate goes boom and reduces that booty haul...how much would this drop be? how much does an insured death cost for reequip? I doubt VERY much it would eat into that 3million profit margin -- BaadF00d recently speculated that preventing pirates from having their stolen commod booty insured is going against "Occam's Razor"
If ND keeps /give then there is no benefit for tow pilots (ie. pirates taking their job seriously and not just an excuse to civrip), and it simply is a boon to pirates without any thought of balance or fair play.

you see, back in the olde days merchant ships plying the seven seas didn't have the option to take a POD home all safe and snug. If they did have that choice there is NO way they would have ever taken the "jolly roger" seriously (oh they took the fact the pirates were mainly after the booty damned seriously, and they never enjoyed the "excitement" of the PoD. that's just a little too kinky). Once EP2 arrives you'll see a marked change in attitude towards station stripping, piracy, bountyhuntiing, escort services, and police roadchecks (now effective at RPing their role at anti-stripping/smuggling/etcetc)
    hell, the "piracy tool" of /scan will be the biggest boon for player run events since races...
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Nicator
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC, the pol immediately drops to -3 on the first item stolen, down to -15 minimum.
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nopers
not
uh uh

that's Virgil doing his best imitation of a total git. You heard him wrong, just like 99% of the servers did. He later corrected that too mean: "goes down by -3pr, not TO -3pr" (an even better way of stating that is you LOSE 3 pr each time you steal an item)
    reminds me of the -100pr thingie the emperor once did on some people we know, eh? lazy lazy lazy Dev's. anyways, do remember to check that EP2 FAQ in "news and reviews" forum
personally, i think Virgil's a fucktard for confusing the entire population about something SO BASIC as to be critically important...furthermore, the continued lack of feedback from dipshit is causing alot of confusion to spread. (no doubt Raiderr has seized his chance to sow some hysteria too with a flame war)

He always was a disgusting demogogue like Rollio. both of them are great at saying nothing but their own agenda, and they do it masterfully too. (fucked up the game no end Rollio did with some of his "suggestions" to balance the game) I mean, shit. I'll bet ND is in total denial that smooth talkin rollio actually believes what's rollio's is good and what's good is rollio's. (probably cause ND thinks exactly the same politiking way)

Virgil & co are perfectly happy if we waste our time arguing semantics
*deep breath*
rant FFS :headbang: 8P ... idea ... STFU :urstupid: not :BEEEP: muffy :rock: pistols :maxpayne: :backfire:
*sigh* :irony:
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MG general forum thread
IN REPLY TO
*shrug* well, to be honest we're not shooting in the dark on this subject. We know some pretty fundamental things here.

1). noone is at risk atm. (pirates only get killed if you shoot at them or someone drops by; a transport pilot will never /give more than he/she wants, and being downed is a mere inconvenience unless you're dealing with griefers who'll KOS you into the stone age)

2). transport pilots who will obviously not pay more than they're willing and escort fees to entice mercenaries are more than they're willing as well. (unless it's farming, but we're talking about real people not the "fortune 15")
    as for the 250k problem you have, i have no comment.
3). what is demanded is always negotiable. Even (stat) whores want repeat business.

...in the end the current system is a protection racket that discourages police/escorts/mercenaries and relies on personal reputation on a dangerously complacent level. (your relationship with the local mafia don ain't a two way street)
    Finally, we get /give replaced by some REAL piracy tools so the pirates have to work at it instead of relying on the incredibly complacent routine we have now.
    if /give was taken out in EP2
  1. both sides would be at risk. (victim because his maximum loss is his full cargo value--instigators and all with no recourse for insurance; pirates for deadly bombs, but assuaged by insurance if +pr at death)
  2. since transport pilots will obvious "pay" more than they're willing if they're not careful, WILL start enticing escorts and police career pvp pilots (and will be like shit to flies for the pirates)
  3. what would be demanded would not be negotiable unless you were docked and in trade for protection racket. (and that, my friend, is exactly what happens anyways for the intelligent, organized squads...or at least i hope you're offered discounts for protection rackets, mate)
*watches NJ_Sid play with his SuperPlatinum Visa card and gives up*
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Nicator
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the pirate will immediately lose 3 PR for the first act as well as gain a temporary bounty, and will drop another 3 PR for each additional act down to a maximum of -15


Little bastage! He edited! Cheat! Cheat! FFS
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoundrel wrote:
  1. most of the time Im flying alone. So these tools wont be very useful to me for pirating, most of the time.
  2. About the cargo bombs, unless the price of one is fairly high then EVERY tow will have multiple bombs, making it very diffuclt to rob anyone.
  3. The first thing is that the sending pilot should receive a message telling them that their transaction is complete, mabye even broadcast it to the whole sector only showing the amount sent to the reiceving and sending party. I have sent money many of times and not really known if it went through or if I had writen the porper amount of money.
  4. The second thing is that if the account does not have suffienct funds this should also be told to the sending and recieving party.
  5. All you people that are not pirates have no idea how hard of a life we already have.
1). The Highwayman i agree it will force pirates to cooperate as a team, unless you've the guts to sacrifice modx and gun slots and go it alone (if /give was removed)...I must say it would be a bummer for RP to eliminate the dastardly scoundrels who like to RP "Highwaymen", unfortunately there are 'objective conditions'. The main one being most pirates are just RPing to suit Civripping. (why do i believe this to be fact? well, escorting is the counterpart of a highwayman's RP and both just as boring for the most part...do we see escort careers? no) to wit: taking /give away may harm the "Highwayman" RP played by a select few, but the benefits outweigh the costs especially when a host of other RP careers become viable (which would not be so if /give was in place come EP2) devil's advocate: i could be wrong about the deleterious effect of /give combined with piracy tools, but i highly doubt the facts at hand.

2). Nerfing the bomb i disagree here strenuously on the plain fact i see no possible way that Josh could disable theft of transport mission cargo. I'm talking about n00bs who will see the theft as griefing (and even tho you pirates might type "deal with it", their wallets do the talking)...as for the "risk" you people take, seriously. give me a break! Tows are catnip for you folks and i daresay blowing one of you to kingdom-come will put the fear of god into pirates over ALL tows - simply because of the unknown. (except for reputation) to wit: nerfing the bomb will turn pirate tools into anti-customer tools. devil's advocate: *shrug* if transport missions suck, we'll simply have to change our mission recommendations for the new players (the real n00bs)...as for nerfing the excitement for pirates? why? you've always told the carebears that being civripped is a total rush so i fail to see your point? Other than an excuse to civrip i can't see it.

3 & 4). improving the /give: I'd agree with you on those points. who wouldn't? Though, really, that's simply wishlist stuff and low priority at that i might add. (most of the stuff is word of honour anyways, so what's the point of clarifying something unless you're just after preventing civripping excuses? That just begs the question)

5). tuff shit: no comment. roflmao
    EDIT:
    personally, i seriously doubt ND will consider removing /give. Why? cause i bloody well know they look at it as, "if it ain't broke, why fix it?" and ignore the majority who say remove it. So yeah, who cares about broadening the RP possibilities of non-pirates? *shrug* I think my stance is a losing one and i'll get laffed at once ND releases EP2, everyone asks why /give wasn't removed, and they respond with, "huh?"
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


*A picture is worth a thousand words.*
Quoteland wrote:
Mieder (1990) has traced the origin of the saying "a picture is worth a thousand words" to Fred Barnard, an advertising manager in the early 1920s. Barnard used these words as a headline when selling advertising in trams. He originally claimed that it was a Japanese proverb, then in a later advertisement that it was Chinese - a literal Chinese translation in his copy lent authenticity. Some dictionaries of quotations now accept Barnard's claim of Chinese origin at face value, and this idea of ancient Chinese wisdom has inspired researchers who publish papers claiming that pictures are or are not worth a thousand words. In the light of the actual origin of the saying, we can make an interesting observation. Barnard's claim was not about information content, but affect - when used in advertising, a picture draws attention more than text



though, i'll tell yah, that thread included is the most beautiful sight i've ever seen...Know why? That's cause when braggadocio's like BlkPrince panic they start mouthing the truth (ie. "Chutzpah"). VERY educational on the mindsets of PvPers who more often than not lie like thieves but claim their dignity.


Last edited by MajorFreak on Wed Feb 12, 2003 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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me-777
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'd like a differnt kind of bombs:
boobietraps.
a modx is needed to place boobietraps on cargo that gets stolen, those traps have 2 effects:
  • if the trader dies (no matter the reason) the traped cargo explodes doing enough damage to kill a fighter with 2 or 3 units of cargo.
  • as the traps need to be disarmed the value of the stolen cargo is reduced (by 50% or something) and it can only be sold at unreg-stations

maybe the insurance companies even compensate the trader for the difference betwen the price the pirate will get and the value of the stolen cargo...

those kind of traps are more defesive than offensive, so a pirate has less reason to put the trader on kos (its his own fault to kill the trader after he robed him)

then for the /give :
the points PJ made in the mg-forum are convincing:
what should a pirate (rebel) do with a fighter (or miner) without /give?
kill it?
ignore it?

but the /give as it is shouldnt be used for pod-ing annymore, insted a /pod should be implemented (like sugested somewhere in the mg-forum) with /pod /give needs to be removed (or annyone has a idea how to prevent pod's asking for /give when /pod is there?)
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RazorX
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a picture is worth a thousand words, does that mean I don't have to write a thousand words to say that it looks like only 23 people are left playing JumpGate? (sorry, couldn't resist that one).

As a former JumpGate griefer/pirate, I just wanna say that I think the /give command should be removed. It was only useful in one situation in which I civ-ripped an Arty Tens, felt bad when I found out that it was, and offered to pay the pilot 150 million to cover it. I landed at Sol Core (RP that I was turning myself in to Solrain authorites) and realized I couldn't trade in station due to the bounty. Had to launch, /give the money to the pilot, and I was immediately shot down for my generosity.

If people want to play pirates, then they should use the game mechanics specifically designed for that, not a command that when conceived, probably had no thought given to the "Pay or Die" that it allowed.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

offtopic
GMTichy wrote:
The /wing command (originally intended to improve cooperation i'd say, now usually abused for powerlevelling) makes any exp/level hit kinda obsolete when ppl can level to 30 in 30 hours...
Well, i don't like that point of view. basically there's alot of other ways to powerlevel without /wing. And w/o wing command you powerlevel twice as fast, and it usually takes the form of a high level pilot towing flux for you.

*shrug*

/wing isn't the problem, and some of the flux combat stuff might get fixed once the swarms arrive, but the MAIN problem has always been the ridiculous bounty one gets for downing high level flux.
    didn't you know the powerlevel tool of choice is MS at kraken+? just wait till EP2 arrives and MS are a dime a dozen again for the power levellers
Personally, i always thought the XP hit was a joke. Griefers don't give a damn about XP hits (they can grief folks quite happily in starter ships after resetting each time) and people who pushed the envelope (ie. Rollio) are smart enough to keep PR outside the XP hit zone (by discoing, running, etc)...XP hits were always a joke to everyone whom the rule was supposed to punish, and a serious crimp on people who roleplayed...folks who TRIED to play the game *IC* with negPR...folks who get treated like griefers because the GAME ENGINE created by NetDevil said so.

The whole thing's a bloody joke, people. It's like reacting to terrorists by creating draconian laws against the population at large. You know, there ARE some folks out there who actually PLAY THIS GAME. hmmm? "Self-Policing" via the vigilante culture we have has ONLY worked in beta5 when it WAS quake in space. "Self-Defense" has NEVER been coded. There is no honour in JumpGate's core engine, so how the hell can the community "pretend" there can be? Excuse me, but homie don't play that game.
Quote:
Thorstein Veblen wrote:
All is fair in war and politics. It is a game of force and fraud. There is said to be honor among thieves, but one does not look for such a thing among statesmen.
ontopic and don't forget /give. do you realize that tool has always been the "RP" excuse of choice for griefers? (sorry to burst your bubble, folks, but anyone who thinks /give is a perfect roleplaying tool needs to learn that they're simply "rping" to suit civripping)
    actually, leave /give in...and BAN anyone stupid enough to use it. that'll be the best griefer alert ever...Either that or start coding inhibitor chips, folks, cause EU is getting the griefers from US server in droves cause they killed off the population over there, what make you folks think you're immune from people leaving in disgust? Once there's no more sheep do you think the wolves will last long eating each other? lol. Allegiance is like that, and we'd all cheer if NetDevil gave up and made it open source. the problem is ND is all too aware, or should be, that you folks couldn't care less if they survived financially or not. grrrrrrrr grrrrrrrr grrrrr
*spit* Griefers have no honour. Don't they know that "honor among thieves" is laced with irony?! Of course not.
Quote:
pride goeth before a fall
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2003 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doomsay Bomb (a brilliant idea by Doomsday)

I also recreated the US poll over bombs needed to gank pirate, here
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QUOTELAND wrote:
'A man cannot eat his cake and have it still' - J. Davies, 'Scourge of Folly no 271' (1611)

The general meaning is that one cannot enjoy the advantages of two mutually incompatible situations.
Quote:
Deception is the point.
Any fool can calculate strength. That one's been doing from the moment they saw us. Now he has to calculate what he can't see ...Or fear what he doesn't know


Crossreference Crossreference UBERreference
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveG wrote:

Well if the Ep2 pirate tools take off, then perhaps disabling /give in space could be a viable alternative to curb things.

All the way through, we've not said about pirating being outlawed, and have only talked about pirates agreeing to stick to un-reg as one possible solution.

I think the poll really reflects that the majority of people don't mind them being in reg space, but there is just too many of them.

I have to say after a four month break I am shocked at the abundance of pirates now.


well, that's the first thing DaveG has said that made any sense. wtg Too bad he forgot that first sentence uttered is exactly what will be open to interpretation, so good bloody luck dealing with Raiderr and the other "/give is good for the community's health" spindoctors


Nicator wrote:
It's odd. Since the introduction of the 250k pod rule everyone has podded for 250k, almost completely regardless of level. Before that, a gentlemen's code of conduct seemed to exist, where lower levels were podded for less - as a noob I got podded for 10k a couple of times. I think the fact that there is a rule that states what pods are allowed has given people a mindset that 250k is the pod, and is acceptable for all levels.
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EP2 RELEASE (EP2 FAQ)

MODX
COMMOD


w0rmy wrote:
Cargo Scanner??
A little mouse told me, you can use current scanners to get a cargo listing, is this true??
GrimGriz wrote:
Yup, works like a charm. I DO hope however, that Lexxor or some company improves the effective range of them -- It's fun to violate you fellow pilots, but 200m can be a challenge -- just target them, get close enough, and press your scan button.



FFS why the hell hasn't /give been removed?!?!?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrimGriz wrote:
Is muffy still around? If so could you please pass this on for me?

HAHA Push button scanners! HAHA HAHA I win, u lose HAHA


har har it is to laff.
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HrHrHrHr wrote:
IMO actual examples of griefing are very rare, it seems that whenever somebody who isnt a full time pvp'er gets killed then it automatically must be griefing, griefing to me is when somebody goes out of there way to ruin your game, killing you for no other reason than for a laugh is griefing, killing for not paying a POD for example is not griefing, it may suck for the person being PoD'ed but if you are that bothered about dying, why dont you pay the PoD?


I'd say that this definition is instead semantic waffling. i've seen 'griefers' on F5:help lurk around just for the chance to argue with someone coming on just after being ripped and complaining about being PKgriefed. (this is anyone and everyone for no matter the reason)
    because, you know what? The 'griefers' on this server can pretty much explain away even tubecamping. Don't mock me. i've seen it done time and time again.
Fred0 wrote:
Ya sure. An online game isn't allowed to do that? Is it not possible that if all you wanna do is bum around in space and loiter the spacelanes you should have a hard time braking even? People get lazy because fuel, armour and ammo is free and it doesnt take too much effort imho to make 250k.
Xyleth wrote:
Excuse me?

Like some other people who play this game I have a job. I also have a life outside of Jumpgate (oh the horror). As a consequence I only have a few hours a week in which I can actually be in game.

Now, I do not wish to be accused of laziness or loitering, but I find that of those precious few hours there are many more things I would care to be doing than hauling stuff all over the universe just so I have the cash to hand over to some idiot pirate with the IQ of a peanut who cannot be bothered to earn it himself.

Call me odd but I much prefer to spend my time engaging in some light role play with other members of the server and working on the kind of events that keep myself and many others amused. I do the odd bit of fluxxing, I run escorts for those in need and I help the odd Noob out when and where I can. None of these things strike me as lazy, yet none of them are conducive to making large amounts of cash.

So, like I said, I am currently spending even less time in game than I would normally until the current fad for pirating passes. Preferably until the Burglar is out (something my squad may or may not have a minor role in the RP of btw) and /give is consigned to the scrap heap of bad ideas. Then those who want to play pirates can and those ameoboids who use it as an excuse to burn of the testosterone that builds up due to their continual inability to get laid (owing no doubt to the fact most of them posses social skills a psychopath would be ashamed of) bugger off and find some other game to ruin.

However I will state this for the record. I am done paying pirates, of any caliber. If you POD me you had better be prepared to fight. I will most likley loose, but not one more credit shall I pay to you morons.


funny how those that defend PoD because nonpvpers have it easy and are therefore lazy to complain about /give are pretty much hypocritical to the very core.

the problem i see with the burglar is that 'griefers' will show how really lazy they are by stealing stuff from n00bs.
    there's also the problem of wynar pvp "pirates" getting miffed about losing their "WINGAME" button and forming pirate gangbang fleets and blockading stations. (those defense droids are a joke)...they'd justify this "non-exploit/non-grief" by the fact they can do it, and that removing /give forces them to be asswipes (ie. exploit the lack of station defenses) and that this "forces" more interaction with bountyhunters/anti-pirates which is supposed to be great for the community....yeah, i can see it now. They'll try to get away with this burglar-mob even if /give isn't removed. (call it "preemptive self-defense")
Don't you just love it how everything introducing more risk for noncombatants is somehow "good for the community"? (remember, this sort of "risk" being promoted is touted as Roleplaying "realism." Forgetting that being a TOTAL ASSHOLE game is about all they become to the rest of MMOG clientelle)


Oh, one more thing: This isn't about black&white "omg muffy wants inhibitor chip" hysteria. This is about the slow peeling away of the parasitic exploits and plain shoddy balance issues (not to mention developer ignorance of their own bias)
    a bias that promotes and attracts, a priori, this "CIVigilante/HGanker" culture that couldn't define 'griefing' even if serial killers in prison started playing this game.


HrHrHrHr wrote:
I know to people who dont trade 250k PoDs are gonna sting a bit. Ideally ppl would be PoD'ed an amount suitable to there networth, sadly this isnt realistic as it would mean a pirate checking JOSSH everytime he spots a target. Another good reason to remove /Give and then the only ppl who pirate will be the ones that actually RP piracy and dont just want a convenient excuse to rak up easy kills.
The problem with the current system is if for instance, WAW, Leatherbo, wertex, WD-40 and say 5 more of the better PVP pilots on the server decided to form a pirate squad, they could basically fly around making an absolute fortune PoD'ing every1 they meet with virtual impunity as unless they meet a gankfleet of epic proportions there is very little ppl could do about it.
Get rid of /Give, make ppl that want to pirate, actually work for it.

nicely put.


only problem is i'm starting to suspect that statpadders who've been PoD parasites (ie. the "RP" excuse to avoid 'griefer' status) will attempt a shift to explaining away their civrips because they call on truckers to cut their engines without the PoD rigamole. (ie. another, shorter "RP" excuse to avoid 'griefer status)
    personally, removing /give is important because it will sharply reveal who the 'griefers' are because now civripping while pirating will be seen as 'griefing' no matter the "RP" excuses thrown the community's way. unfortunately, MG is about as dumb as a log and would probably give the old *wink*wink* to their "loyal statpadder niche market"...MG does this because they can't seem to get over the myth that 'griefers' are ALL stupid and don't evolve into smart 'griefers' who use the system's exploits in a not-nice way.
I'm curious to see how the 'Traps' will be used...i believe pirates fool themselves into thinking hardly anyone would use them. I believe the stadpadders are blissfully ignorant of the fact 90% of the server base would carry at least one all the time, simply because having an excuse to civrip the entire population of nonpvpers would kinda backfire. a little 'grief' is still PlayerKilling, and how many folks did you see walking around other MMOGs and online games with friendly fire icons enabled?

not freakin much.
jacraven wrote:
To me it seems piracy here is being used as an excuse to kill, the aim with piracy shoud always be to get the money
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Nellie
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've mulled over the idea of traps for a while now. Do I use em and risk a retaliation killing etc etc. And in the end I harked back to a quote (in a slightly different context) from Mr Pratchett.

Mobster: If you kill me 1000 people are waiting to take my place.
Cohen: Yes, but the point is you will be dead.

On that basis, and certainly in the current environment where it is far from certain under what circumstances a "pirate" will see you as 250k or another kill on his stats you can bet your boots I will be carrying traps. I may well end up as yet another stat, but at least they can go through the aggro of having to re-equip as well. (and a trap kill had better count on MY stats, I want a "pirates ganked with traps" column :D.
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Nicator
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
there's also the problem of wynar pvp "pirates" getting miffed about losing their "WINGAME" button and forming pirate gangbang fleets and blockading stations. (those defense droids are a joke)...they'd justify this "non-exploit/non-grief" by the fact they can do it, and that removing /give forces them to be asswipes (ie. exploit the lack of station defenses) and that this "forces" more interaction with bountyhunters/anti-pirates which is supposed to be great for the community....yeah, i can see it now. They'll try to get away with this burglar-mob even if /give isn't removed. (call it "preemptive self-defense")


I think (hope) that this will end up as the same as the 'non-noob mining outside QC' thing - as you said, in game reputation is important, and I don't think the current set of pirates would steal from newbies.

On the point of the 250k PoD limit, I was undecided at first as to whether it should be put in. In the end, it was bad for the game, IMO. MG needed to stop the really excessive (10 million) PoDs (While it was brilliant work on Condemned's part from an *IC* perspective, scouting out heavily artied tows and making them pay heavy PoDs, it wasn't good for the game from an OOC perspective), but they need to find a better solution. All the current system does is encourage a 'one size fits all' 250k PoD approach from pirates. Before this rule, relatively low PoDs were issued to non-traders, and to relatively low levels (say lvl 20). When I was a lvl 10 venturing into unreg, I got introduced to piracy with a 10k PoD (very cool experience, great fun :) ). I'm not quite sure what would happen with the current rules in place.
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'll respond to that later. it deserves a comment. sorry, but i'm busy tonight doing other stuff. cya l8r! thx for the feedback.
wtg
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Nellie
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must admit the take up of scanning by the factionalists at the moment is heartening to see (wonder how many people I annoyed trying it out yesterday, didnt realise it told the scanee lol). Suppose it is too much to hope that this approach might be adopted by pirates (though it is always possible to hide what you are carrying I guess) in lieu of the full tools coming in.

*scan* Matcons "that'll be 500k or die" (unreg naturally)

*scan* Grain/something dead useful to the econ "pay us 250k for an escort to reg space".

We know an Aerosmith song about that, dont we children..
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

argh. now i'm dead tired. Zz
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apparently, the transport mission cargoes ARE stealable. (silly ND)...100% effective way to grief a n00b. *shrug* funny how that "fix" they put in the TP server never got it's T's crossed and I's dotted. tsk tsk...silly me how i emphasized the importance of this only to find out it's been an open secret for MONTHS

my my...i'm suuuuuuuure no harm has been done by all the innocent pvpers out there full of joy.
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