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Heavy Corvette special ability

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 12:29 am    Post subject: Heavy Corvette special ability Reply with quote

the initial burst
proper planning and preparation prevent piss poor performance
Apollo(SLS) wrote:
It is definitely best if you direct your entire wall to attack the approaching fighter, then use the heavy burst. After the first burst is away, quickly regroup your vettes with a F9 command. Multiple bursts are not recommended, especially if your own fighters are in the fray. Burst fire is indescriminate in its destruction.
You order the wall to attack (entire; normal attack order) - This bit is very critical and i'll explain why:
  1. Range of burst = 5000m (that's about 1/3 of the max view range)
  2. Initial charge ('Snapshot') is extremely short and deadly, but the recharge rate is stupid long and for that reason, useless.
  3. The second you click the special ability for the wall it targets the location in space your target(s) WERE (or if stationary, ARE, but that's a different kettle of fish we'll cook later)
  4. Therefore you must be both facing your target and within range to take advantage of the burst's 'snapshot' ability.
  5. Otherwise, forget it...the radius is 2400m and the damage drops off (don't bother looking THAT up in the bigfile. it's in the engine itself that)
  6. Not to mention the vettes come to a complete stop while recharging (though i'll have to test whether it will move to get within range of a retreating target while recharging, but i doubt it)
Okay, so we're talking about the 'Snapshot' ability as useful. (the truescale MOD is wonderful for range calculation once you get a feel for it. Definitely worth your while for this alone)


There's a few things left to figure out: How much does tactics (f2-4) affect the 'Snapshot'? This is a multiple layed question with issues such as damage/range modifiers and targetting distraction issues. (the former, if relevant affects the importance of the latter)
    personally, i'm betting there's no modifiers and that targetting distraction is the only issue here...which means Apollo_1's F2 suggestion is right on the money
Apollo_1 wrote:
The best thing to do is set the heavies to evasive

Now we come to the meat of this thread. You're all wondering what amount of Hv'Vettes you'll need. Both a Kushan and Taiidan VOLLEY will do between 14-18 dmg. (ie. don't use this versus capital ships, static targets nor single targets)
using both 14dmg & 18dmg per burst and rounding up for hv'vettes needed
Turanic Fighter = 16-13 salvo
Kadeshi Swarmer = 29-23 salvo
Kadeshi AdvSwmr = 32-26 salvo

Defender = 24-18 salvo
Scout = 8-7 salvo (might try F4 with 6? dunno)
Interceptor = 12-9 salvo
Cloaked = 11-9 salvo
Defense = 22-17 salvo
Bomber =  8-7 salvo (might try F4 with 6? dunno)

    Different Kettle of Fish
    Now, the reason targetting capital ships is bad comes from the fact that if the burst bullet hits a target it will NOT affect area damage, BUT will still have it's lousy damage compared to the normal attack rating. (ie. there's no "tamping" effect

  1. just compared the faq5 data on normal attack dmg/volley...seems the burst fire is one quarter the damage of normal. (taking into consideration the average) the armour ratings for kushan/taiidan are in that faq5. (don't forget the damage drops off from ground zero to 2400m)
  2. please don't confuse dmg/volley with "firepower" (aka. dmg/sec...)
  3. comparing "firepower" stats for normal and burst gives 23 for normal and 2 for burst (that's also partly why Apollo(SLS) suggests switching back to your usual attack/formation/tactics after that initial burst (ie, 'Snapshot'.) that and the silly breaking formation stuff they do too)

nasty little thought. We once had a couple jokers nattering on about a contest between 50 hv's and 50 multi's. (multi's have 1400 armour, right? that's two burst fires from 50 hv's make multis go boom; recharge takes ~8 seconds so a normal attack pattern would kill at best 7 of those multis in that time...the question now is how many of those multis would the first burst catch? all? F4 spacing in combat zone is 300m? so you probably tag all of them if you did a correct 'Snapshot', and you'd be inflicting 40000dmg with the burst ability - assuming you tag all 50 perfectly)

40,000dmg in less than a second. (0.1sec charge+ ~0.3sec time on target)
    BTW, the silly 50 vette theory doesn't take into account the fact alot of those shots would impact hulls and thus ruin the area affect. (something to think about when one debates tactical spread)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm...odd. Just did a playtest with savageFL and found some interesting stuff. I went into the test expecting that tactics wouldn't affect dmg/rng of burst...what happened instead was a surprise. i didn't expect my 6 vette's to kill any bombers. period.

a. tactics don't seem to affect damage/range (at least it's almost impossible to tell)
b. if vettes don't fire all at once the damage is lessened even more by the blowback ability of the first bursts as they help to move targets away from 'ground zero'
c. six vette salvo WILL kill bombers...which is technically impossible.

There's a few things to test now that the 'impossible' has happened. There's one thing that has always interested me and that's armour aspect for fighters. now, it's been stated that capital ships are affected by's just never mentioned explicitly that fighters/corvettes don't have some sort of modifier as well. (not to mention testing such a thing is problematic at best)

Now, if the above assumption proves to be true, then i'll have to go back and test the tactical modifiers again with new data based on this fact. (ie. 6 vette salvo was overkill and would have been overkill no matter what because of aspect armour...if true)

If the above assumption proves to be false, then we've got some wierd engine tweak that boosts damage nearer ground zero. (ie. the stated dmg might actually be INCREASED the closer to ground zero one gets)
    logical conclusion once armour aspect is eliminated as a possibility...which i highly doubt, so i'll bet on the game engine boost
post 2nd test
Okie. pitted 6 F4 defenders against 6 F2 hv'vettes (half of whom were pointed away from defenders)...looks like armour aspect is false for fighters like we suspected all along (duh. it's playtesting. i HAVE to confirm even if it's a nobrainer)
    okay, so it's GOT to be a game engine dmg boost closer you are to ground zero.
Conclusion and post-tests
Okay, so the bombers SavageFL lined up for me in the first test had a spread of ~525m between each on F2 combat spread. the test usually ended up killing 6-8 bombers from a simultaneous volley from 6 hv'vettes. (which meant that the damage was pretty much boosted a little beyond what's statistically possible, as listed in the bigfile, for a good 75% of the radius of area damage)
    BTW, while rummaging around in the bigfile i noticed that fighter tactical dmg/range modifiers were different than corvette. Looks like fighters don't suffer a penalty like corvettes do while in evasive for this. (and their bonus for aggro is better)
The next test will be testing if 5 vettes can take a wall of bombers using it's 'snapshot' attack (if so, can 4 vettes)

Third test results
Well, with aXis-[subSonic]'s help i figured out that 5 vettes won't kill a formation of bombers. I think next time i'll need to be ultra careful so i get range notes and set up the situation so that the bombers are already in their evasive spread. (prolly using an enemy scout or something to spook them)
  • make 18 bombers, 2 SFs, 2 probes and 2 scouts along with 5 hv'vettes...
  • set the two probes 16km apart, put one scouts between them, put the SFs just behind one probe along with the bombers and the vettes...send the last scout to the other probe.
  • set up the bombers in broad and vettes in X formation
  • make the bombers face the other probe
  • all on Evasive-F2
  • The test partner does the same but puts the sf/bomber/vette force at opposite probe. (remember that one scout is in the middle and the other to spook the "enemy" bombers)
  • spooking the bombers should be a no brainer, but if needed simply get the scout to shoot one of the SFs and cancel. that should do it. (everything on evasive, remember)
  • The tricky bit is measuring spread and probable distance to ground zero (shots will end up just behind the middle of the row)
  • spread on Evasive should be 9400m-9500m from one side of the bomber formation to the other. (distance to ground zero from the far sides would probably be ~275m perhaps? so the farthest bomber should be ~5000m from ground zero...which should be well beyond the danger zone)
  • using a normal attack order on the bombers and set the burst order once past the middle scout
  • cancelling the attack after the first burst and moving the vettes back.
  • If everything went correctly you should have one bomber in the red and some of the rest damaged to lesser extent.
  • Critical bits: to see whether damage is inflicted beyond the official 2400m radius (which would be a logical conclusion since we're assuming the game engine boosts the damage the nearer you are to ground zero.)
I probably also be interested in seeing how the friendly fire affects that scout nearby. placing it just behind the bomber formation would be perfect.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks to Dough fer helping me out with the final test.

Okie dokie, so we know that damage is great enough with 5 vette burst to almost kill a bomber and injure anything less than 3000m radius. Now, the range of the closest bomber to ground zero was ~1000m (wish i could post a pic, but mindphyre's being a bitch)

The 'Bigfile' states that 1 vette will do 14-18 dmg to a target out to 2400m radius.
Since we've discovered that 6 vettes do the impossible of killing bombers consistently (according to the bigfile even at max random dmg it takes more than 6 to kill a bomber)
Therefore we can confidently state that for some reason the game engine tweaks damage/range by approximately 25%
For the record the 'unofficial' true stats for burst is 1 vette will do ~20dmg to a target out to 3000m. (dropping off gradually past the 1500m mark i believe)

Course, ~20dmg is a joke when a aggro formation of vettes does ~104dmg per volley from each vette. (meaning one vette will usually kill off a bomber in one normal volley ~50% of the time...assuming 30% formation dmg bonus and 25% aggro dmg bonus)
    for the purist though, this means something else entirely. The 'Snapshot' ability is priceless if you can do it right and get the technique down so you know as long as yer facing the target and in range you can always do more damage as long as you have lots of targets within a 6km globe...After that switch back to normal attack.
  • don't use burst using less than 5 vettes or less than 5 strike craft targets
  • don't use burst if you're not directly oriented at your targets
  • don't use burst if you're using anything but evasive
  • don't use burst at something you know will cause the bullets to strike (single target capital ships, etc)
  • don't use burst ability beyond the first salvo (ie. 'Snapshot')...switch to normal attack and formation immediately.
This technique assumes you'll be using a mixed wall supported by SFs in multiplayer, and will want to switch back to aggro/wall and conduct normal attack patterns right after the 'Snapshot'

Numbers needed to burst kill using the new data (using average of 20dmg)
Scout/Bomber                  5.5 vettes             
Cloaker/Interceptor       7.5/8.0 vettes
Turanic Fighter              11.25 vettes       
Defense ftr/Defender      15/16.25 vettes
Kadeshi Swarmer              20 vettes
Kadeshi Advswarmer           27.5 vettes
Light Corvette               45 vettes
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