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NWN (shipped)
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2002 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bioware General forum thread
MUFFY'S FUNN33 MORAL OUTLOOK REVEALED. heh.
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BaadF00d
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Joined: 01 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2002 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hehe.

Its just so damn hard to play evil in these games tho.

I mean other than my mental block preventing me from playing anything other than chaotic good (the rather odd outlook my characters have - i never accept money from a quest if I can do the quest for free, at the same time ive looted every chest in the vicinity).

But, as far as evil goes - i wish that NPCs would have more options that friendly & hostile. ... and that I had more options that outright killing them.

I mean - there are some NPCs i would really like to beat into submission without actually killing. The options are too binary - its either be nice - or kill.

I mean - sure - youd get some NPCs with terminal bad attitudes that no amount of beating would get them to comply, but for the most part - if you *accidently* let off a fire ball in a crowded bar, why on earth do all the patrons hurl themselvs at you? whats worse i couldnt exit before my henchmen had run off and killed the lot of them.

It was an accident dammit! and I cant even say sorry and make reperations by healing everyone?

Actually my big problem is dealing with characters that in fact do start out hostile and then surrender... they inveriably surrender after ive started casting a spell, and before it hits them. "please - i surrender - please dont kill me" - *bam* - "argh!"

Hell - how am i meant to be "good" when my damn henchment complete their attacks started before a character surrenders but completed after? Ive taken to saving before attempting any interaction that starts hostile and i think may end in my enemies surrender, so i can restore the game if they prove too fragile. a level 12 sorceror in chapter 2 is just to damn powerful for its own good. (PS. Planar Binding is the mustard! ;) )
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BaadF00d
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2002 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, the situation would be far more recoverable if bodies were left on the ground.

I have access to raise dead. I have access to ressurect. Hell, if theyre still alive I have charm person, dominate will and a bunch of spells that *should* make them friendly again. but everytime ive tried interacting with charmed NPCs - well they just stop talking till the spell wears off.

its all very frustrating. half the spellbook is useless in single player games, and a few spells become useful in MP - still i cant see how 99% of campains are made easier by the mind controll spells - well any easier in a plot centric way - all they do is put people on hold so you can kill their friends now and deal with them (i.e. kill them) later.

i think that a well designed module should allow the use of domination spells to get "easy" access to quests without going thru the hassle of being nice, and thus appropriately boost the spell casters evilness. getting what you want without regards of others is afterall the essence of D&D evil
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2002 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heh. i'll take the gold they offer...i'm NeutralGood, and/but(?) i'll be damned if i'm gonna give charity when i hardly get any "gifts" in return.

You're spot on about the disappearing bodies. i too wish an RPG that dared to call itself that would have a more dynamic PvE environment as regards NPCs, especially when they toss in alignment choice/diety choice as an afterthought.
    a few times in Baldur's Gate 2 i met up with npc reaction bugs that drove me nuts...ended up losing it and killing them off just so i didn't have to deal with the aesthetics

    though, in all honesty, if it was to truly be a better RPG we'd have the option of being recruited by this "cult" and stabbing the paladin so we'd never have to listen to the "jiggly boob" debate again. :eyespin:
the one thing that bothers me about the main quest, atm: the "soon to be fallen" paladin and the spymaster have diddly to say about that Solomon character when he admits the ring was a homing device. (i'm going to be very disappointed if the paladin doesn't fall from grace...either that or it's lousy voice acting.)
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BaadF00d
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2002 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i seem to ahve missed the jiggly boob debate. they wernt jiggly enough or what?

Damn - BG Dark Alliance on the PS2 had the mother of all jiggly boobs. (hehe). I think at least half the work put into their 3d engine was in getting the breast physics exactly right.

Damn - I need to get a job as the guy who sticks the little blue dots on the models that are going to be ... motion captured & digitized.

"Now young lady - well need you to jump up and down. oops - one of your blue dot thingies seems to have come unstuck - not to worry - ill be sure to affix it firmly this time." :eyespin:
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BaadF00d
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2002 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah - not to worry - i found the Aribeths jiggly boobs debate. Just looked for the biggest thread ;)
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2002 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heh. try opening up the toolset character of aribeth. grab her and shake up and down, back and forth...you'll die laffin. (course, i take no responsibility for marital stress)
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MajorFreak
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From relicnews forums...
ThePreacher wrote:
Personally, I've enjoyed playing NWN on a LAN, but it's not the same over the internet. Something is lost when the face to face interaction is taken away.

NWN is also suffers from the same problems that face to face gamers have, but in many ways, these difficulites are more noticeable. In a face to face game, if a DM doesn't plan out what is going to happen, he can sometimes throw something together for an "average" gaming session. In NWN, it's simply not possible to throw something together. Unless you enjoy combat for combat's sake, it is simply not possible to throw something together on the fly in NWN. While I think that in theory NWN might work, in practice we still have not developed a medium that is easy to use, but still provides us the the power to easily do what we want in an RPG.

In short, NWN is good if someone who is really good at creating modules is willing to invest a huge portion of time for a small group of gamers on a LAN. If all of these requirements are met, a lot of the tedious "adjudication" issues that bog down most Pen and Paper RPGs are removed and the gameplay is streamlined. If those requirements are not met, it's about as fun as fighting wave after wave of creatures for no apparent reason. If you like RPGs for plot and role playing opportunities, NWN probably won't be a good substitute to pen and paper games. If your idea of roleplaying is a bunch of monsters and combat that stand in the way of you getting treasure and experience, it might be something you should consider.
APOLLO(SLS) wrote:
As for NWN, I think your enjoyment of it is proportional to the creativity of the world you find yourself in. I have come upon some real dogs of modules/persistent worlds, where every shop has a "+5 Holy Avenger of Instantly Smiting Evil" (TM) or a "+5 Vorpal Axe of Unrelenting Evil" (TM) or some such nonsense.

Luckily for me, I found a persistent world called Battledale where role-play is emphasized and enforced by DMs. You are overjoyed when you get your first +1 weapon and armor, as you must work to get them and cannot simply buy them in a shop...a quest is involved. "Shouting" across the module is not permitted, and is grounds for banning. DMs are on frequently (DMs from Europe and USA, so good timezone coverage). There is a LOT of custom scripting. Very few of the official campaign items are in the game, most are custom made for the module. No uber weapons at all. Everyone doesn't run around at breakneck speeds all the time because no one has boots of speed.

Relatively speaking it is a very low-magic world. I have a +2 axe with 1-4 fire damage and I am very happy. I there was a very difficult quest involved in order to obtain it. It is about the best you can hope to obtain on the server. Likewise with my armor, a +2 full plate with a +2 soak 10 damage and +1 STR boost. It is probably one of the most powerful items on the server. There are many other custom magic items, but they are generally only obtainable by repeatable quests, with a random item being generated when you kill the quest boss. Very very few magic items can just be "bought". Typically only scrolls and potions and a few magical mage/bard/monk robes can be bought.

If you like NWN, and don't mind a bit of repetiveness inherint in persistent worlds, I recommend you give it a try. Look me up, I am known as Stonefist Spinecrusher (Dwarven Rogue/Fighter) there.

[Edit]
Additionally, the DMs run epic quests (weekly) and miniquests (almost daily) on a very regular basis. So you are not locked into doing the same things over and over for no apparent purpose. Participation in DM events often yields some of the more unique magic items in the module. I optained a unique armor that way. Others have unique items as well. Nothing is cooler than being the only one in the world with a particular magic item, no matter how powerful or weak it is.
[/Edit]
Vaarok wrote:
NWN singleplayer was just mediocre.

Chock full of cliches, the overarching plot was ridiculously predictable the whole way through, the subplots equally so as soon as they reared their heads, the whole one-character-and-a-stupid-henchman-against-the-world bit was irritatingly inflexible, and magical items were almost as common and discard-in-favor-of-the-same-object-with-a-higher-rating as Diablo, and it had none of the nifty clever interactions, doublecrosses, plot twists or recurring characters that made BG, BG2:SoA, and ToB so much fun.

If I had a connection capable of decent MP and was on a server like Apollo frequents, I guarantee I'd enjoy it more. But solo against the computer in a canned campaign... it was almost crap.
ThePreacher wrote:
I have the exact same complaints with NWN's single player game as Varrok. When compared to BG2 or Planescape, NWN's single player just seems average. I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that you have such a generic character and only one (dumb) henchman. Also, it's plagued with things that make no sense at all, like a random rock in the middle of a cave that just happens to have 250 gold under it. I know the designers were trying to scale the treasure to the level that you were at, but 250 gold under a rock just seems silly. I also got mad when I fought a "powerful" wizard (took my fighter 2 hits to kill, I made all of my saves) and he dropped a suit of full plate armour and a greatsword. Why in the world would a wizard be carrying full plate armour and a greatsword? He can't use it! It was the little things like this that detracted from the overall appeal of the single player game and caused me to ultimately be dissapointed with NWN.

One the upside, the "Witches Wake" addon module that was created by one of the Bioware employees and uses a lot of fan content was great. While I still have a few gripes with it, for the most part I find it to be a much better demonstration of the NWN engine than the official campaign. I've been through it a few times, once as a Sorceror, once as a Bard, and once as a Paladin and it was a little different each time. One of my favorite moments in "Witches Wake" was when I lost my Paladin abilities because I stole some things and did not act as a Paladin should. I am hoping that the add on modules that are being made will use a style that is closer to the Witches Wake series than the official campaign.
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Heretic
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Razor; I found that module you sent me. I never got around to making this modules because i realized the code the company made for NWN really really sucked...the maps were waaaaaaaaaaay too small and predictable (no secret doors) not to mention the official script depressed me in it's overcomplexity and linear nature.
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